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Thread: ARMALITE AR10

  1. #1
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    ARMALITE AR10

    Just saw this rifle for sale here in Switzerland. I really don’t know much about this model, is it reliable, accurate, fun to shoot, historically interesting etc.. ? Opinions and experiences welcome.

    It’s a full auto rifle in 7.62X51 (.308). I understand from the magwell markings that it was built in the Netherlands by Artillerie-Inrichtingen. Serial number seems to be 000692.

    Good news is that it comes with three magazines, I imagine those would be hard to find and pricey.

    Price is a bit cheaper than the M16s I bought lately, so I am tempted.



    TIA
    Last edited by OLIAR15; 04-29-20 at 10:45.

  2. #2
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    Should you buy it, I think you will be very pleasantly surprised at well how well-balanced and pleasant they are to shoot for a 7.62mm rifle.

    Current 7.62mm AR-style rifles made in the US (as well as the HK 417) are heavier and a little awkward. Nowhere near as nice as the originals.

    I would buy it if I could.

  3. #3
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    OLIAR15, every time I read one of your posts, I'm reminded that envy is 1 of the 7 deadly sins. You are gonna get me sent straight to Hell.

    That's a beautiful rifle, I look forward to a range report from you.

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    Yes buy it. 100% yes.

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    I would 100% buy it.

    I have only seen one for real once, it was in Africa.

  6. #6
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    So (...... insert a cursing word here....), seller just got back to me by email telling me he decided to keep the rifle. Oh well .... maybe I’ll look at a full auto M14 in the meantime.

    Thanks again all for input

  7. #7
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    That's a nice-looking rifle. Thank you for posting the pics - haven't seen an Armalite AR10 quite like it. Would be fascinated with the history of such a unique rifle.

    Shame you weren't able to snag it, but I can understand the owners reluctance.
    Last edited by GarthTheBenning; 05-06-20 at 18:53.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarthTheBenning View Post
    That's a nice-looking rifle. .....Would be fascinated with the history of such a unique rifle...
    It is a Sudanese contract AR10. If indeed the SN is 692 then it was in the first shipment of 186 rifles to Sudan on about July 24, 1958. This is according to a letter from Artillerie-Inrichtingen to Interarmco Canada, dated July 30, 1958.

    There are many similar kit guns in the US but they all have lost their serial number. A Sudanese AR10 can be identified by the following features:
    1. Early trigger style charging handle and one piece forearm
    2. Arabic characters on the sight wheel
    3. A brass unit ID disc on the left side of the stock, or a hole where the disc was

    The gun in the OP is missing the bayonet shroud and the unit ID disc. But otherwise is in great condition for having served in Africa.

    Below is my scoped Sudanese kit gun along with a blank fire adapter and fixed bayonet. The lower was made by Specialty Arms in the early 1980s.

    Last edited by HHollow; 05-07-20 at 11:34.

  9. #9
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    Thank you HHollow! I appreciate the extra identifying notes as well. Fascinating! How does it feel to fire? What kind of attachment points are those for the bayonet and scope?

  10. #10
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    Dutch AR10 Bayonet Lug and Scope Details

    Quote Originally Posted by GarthTheBenning View Post
    Thank you HHollow! I appreciate the extra identifying notes as well. Fascinating! How does it feel to fire? What kind of attachment points are those for the bayonet and scope?
    1. How does it feel to fire? The gun is light weight and kicks a bit. However, the lightness makes it nice to carry. I do plan on whacking a whitetail with one.

    2. Bayonet attachment point. See photo below. On the Sudanese and Guatemalan model AR10s the bayonet lug is part of a casting that shrouds the barrel between the front sight base an the flash hider. The lugs are often removed in less tolerant and open minded countries like NZ, Canada, and some parts of Europe. The Portuguese model AR10 has a bayonet lug integrated into a barrel shroud that includes a flash-hider. The Cuban model AR10 had no provision for a bayonet.


    3. Scope attachment. A small fraction of AR10 variants had specially forged and milled carry handles to accommodate a scope. The early (Cuban, Sudanese, Guatemalan) AR10s used a scope that mounted via a threaded rod protruding from the scopes belly. The Portuguese AR10s had unique / strange / complicated mounting system that is "not in scope" for this post. Unfortunately, many infantry AR10s were field modified to accept a crude scope mount and that is why these worn guns often have holes drilled through the sides of the carry handle.

    Below is a closeup of a scope-ready Sudanese AR10 upper. The upper forging is unique and thicker at the bottom of the carry handle. In NZ it was popular to use a mill to flatten the carry handle for easier scoping, severely weakening the handle.



    4. What about scopes? Factory AR10 scopes are very hard to find. Fortunately, the Dutch AR10 manufacturer (AI, Artillerie Inrichtingen) made similar scopes for Dutch FAL rifles. Virtually all of the Dutch FALs were destroyed and many of the FAL scopes ended up in the pockets of lower ranking military. These FAL scopes are not difficult to find, certainly not unobtanium.

    Below is a photo comparing the FAL scope (top) with an original AR10 scope (bottom). You might recognize these scopes as being precursors to the Delft scope made by AI for the Colt 601 rifles (earliest AR15/M16).



    Below is a photo of a Delft scope and mount for a Colt 601 rifle. The beauty of the Colt 601 carry handle mount is that it was compatible with any AR15 or M16.



    There are some noticeable differences in the exterior of the AR10 and Colt 601 scopes. It is not clear from the photos but the distance markings on the AR10/FAL scopes go up to 800 meters but only to 200 meters for the 601 scope. Also, the 601 scope is missing the threaded rod.

    About 800 of the Colt 601 scopes were made and delivered to Cooper McDonald and then production stopped. In the 1960s virtually all the 601 scopes were in military and police possession. Occasionally one will find an early AR10 scope in a Colt 601 mount. The threaded rod must be cut off to mount an AR10 scope this way. Since there was a shortage of 601 scopes, the AR10 scopes were sacrificed this way to meet the demand for civilian use.

    So if you see a 601 Delft scope with a serial number less than about 300, it is likely a massacred AR10 scope. Please notify me of sightings...

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