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Thread: ARMALITE AR10

  1. #11
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    Watch some YT videos first of them actually firing.

    About 10 years ago there was a small flood of AR-10s onto the market and most of them have had a long, long, long service life. Feed problems, magazine problems, extractor problems and sometimes a reciprocating "non reciprocating" charging handle.

    As a collector they are cool as F and the gun of my childhood dreams. They are the original Armalite rifle conceptualized by Stoner. There are so many cool factors I can't even have that discussion but unless you only want a reference example with no expectation of reliable shooting experiences you might want to rethink.

    I want one one day, because I eventually want one of everything. But I will have a SIG 510 and an AR-16 before I get one of these. I also think I'd rather own a semi auto Knights SR-25 variant. But one day I probably want a Sudanese AR-10 if I can find one in "Not F'ed over" condition.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    Watch some YT videos first of them actually firing.

    About 10 years ago there was a small flood of AR-10s onto the market and most of them have had a long, long, long service life. Feed problems, magazine problems, extractor problems and sometimes a reciprocating "non reciprocating" charging handle....

    I want one one day, because I eventually want one of everything. ...
    Virtually all the semi-auto kit guns (AR10s) are F'ed over. However it is not difficult to find one with little internal wear - I suspect that many were carried often and hardly ever fired. The Guatemalan variant AR10s were used in a military training academy and I have seen many with near virgin bolt faces. The charging handle issue (reciprocation) is due to a weak detent spring and easily fixed. A broken charging handle is a deal breaker though. I have bought on two occasions and later found that the charging handle had been broken and rewelded. If you plan to shoot your Dutch AR10 then you need to have backup spares. Otherwise your $8K gun could become un-shootable and very difficult to sell. I want more machinists to own these guns and generate some more spares, like charging handles, detents, etc.

    If you see a very nice Dutch AR10 you should expect to pay dearly. A Brownells BR10 is not a bad substitute for a Dutch gun and is reasonably priced.
    Last edited by HHollow; 05-13-20 at 19:06.

  3. #13
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    What a wealth of interesting info - Thank you for the detail and pics! And happy hunting on that whitetail - let me know how it goes.

    I do like the ingenuity that usually comes out of New Zealand. But flattening the carry handle seems like such a major disruption to the integrity of the gun build.

    I'll keep an eye out for a 601 Delft scope with that sub-300 serial number - would be quite a find for ya. Thanks again!

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarthTheBenning View Post
    ...I'll keep an eye out for a 601 Delft scope with that sub-300 serial number - would be quite a find for ya. Thanks again!
    I have socked away a pristine Colt 601 scope in the event someone needs one in place of their modified AR10 scope.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by HHollow View Post
    Virtually all the semi-auto kit guns (AR10s) are F'ed over. However it is not difficult to find one with little internal wear - I suspect that many were carried often and hardly ever fired. The Guatemalan variant AR10s were used in a military training academy and I have seen many with near virgin bolt faces. The charging handle issue (reciprocation) is due to a weak detent spring and easily fixed. A broken charging handle is a deal breaker though. I have bought on two occasions and later found that the charging handle had been broken and rewelded. If you plan to shoot your Dutch AR10 then you need to have backup spares. Otherwise your $8K gun could become un-shootable and very difficult to sell. I want more machinists to own these guns and generate some more spares, like charging handles, detents, etc.

    If you see a very nice Dutch AR10 you should expect to pay dearly. A Brownells BR10 is not a bad substitute for a Dutch gun and is reasonably priced.
    I was speaking only of original Dutch and Sudanese full auto models. Again about 10 years back there was an sudden surplus of them at nice prices. Modern production AR10s won't have any of the issues I raised.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

    كافر

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    I was speaking only of original Dutch and Sudanese full auto models. Again about 10 years back there was an sudden surplus of them at nice prices. Modern production AR10s won't have any of the issues I raised.
    You must be referring to pre-may sample AR10s.

    I missed the glut. There are practically no original Transferable C&R Dutch AR10 MGs in private hands in the US. Knight's museum has a few dozen, and there are a few scattered in other government museums. Apart from a few amnesty guns, the majority of the C&R AR10s in the US saw no military service and have been gently treated since they left the factory. Knight does have a few that were rudely tested at Aberdeen.

    Pre-may samples are another matter. Some 300 or so early AR10s came to the US in the early 1980s surplussed from the Guatemalan military training academy. The Guatemalan AR10s tended to have serial numbers in the the 003xxx range. These guns are very similar to the Sudanese variant except for the following details,
    1) rear sight wheel has digits rather than arabic characters
    2) no brass disc on the stock
    3) flash-hider and bayonet shroud are ventilated with round holes.

    The Guatemalan AR10s were offered as dealer samples and did not sell well. For this reason many of the Guats were rendered into parts sets and became either spare parts or kit built semis. The Guatemalan AR10s tended to be in good mechanical condition but had much handling wear. You can see several for sale right now on gunstoker. Search AR10 under the NFA section. Most of the AR10 MGs that pass through gunstoker are the pre-may Guats. Maybe once a year a Transferable converted semi-auto is sold (non C&R). This year two C&R Portuguese contract guns were offered, one from the Colt gun room.

    Below is an original Cuban style Dutch AR10. Maybe there are 2-3 in the US outside of museums.


    Below is a original transitional AR10 MG, pretty much like what was tested at Aberdeen. There are probably 3-4 in the US outside of museums. The Aberdeen guns had plastic forearms but wood was initially used because of resin development problems.
    Last edited by HHollow; 05-15-20 at 19:36.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by HHollow View Post
    You must be referring to pre-may sample AR10s.

    I missed the glut. There are practically no original Transferable C&R Dutch AR10 MGs in private hands in the US. Knight's museum has a few dozen, and there are a few scattered in other government museums. Apart from a few amnesty guns, the majority of the C&R AR10s in the US saw no military service and have been gently treated since they left the factory. Knight does have a few that were rudely tested at Aberdeen.

    Pre-may samples are another matter. Some 300 or so early AR10s came to the US in the early 1980s surplussed from the Guatemalan military training academy. The Guatemalan AR10s tended to have serial numbers in the the 003xxx range. These guns are very similar to the Sudanese variant except for the following details,
    1) rear sight wheel has digits rather than arabic characters
    2) no brass disc on the stock
    3) flash-hider and bayonet shroud are ventilated with round holes.

    The Guatemalan AR10s were offered as dealer samples and did not sell well. For this reason many of the Guats were rendered into parts sets and became either spare parts or kit built semis. The Guatemalan AR10s tended to be in good mechanical condition but had much handling wear. You can see several for sale right now on gunstoker. Search AR10 under the NFA section. Most of the AR10 MGs that pass through gunstoker are the pre-may Guats. Maybe once a year a Transferable converted semi-auto is sold (non C&R). This year two C&R Portuguese contract guns were offered, one from the Colt gun room.

    Below is an original Cuban style Dutch AR10. Maybe there are 2-3 in the US outside of museums.


    Below is a original transitional AR10 MG, pretty much like what was tested at Aberdeen. There are probably 3-4 in the US outside of museums. The Aberdeen guns had plastic forearms but wood was initially used because of resin development problems.
    Might have been. All I know is I was this close to grabbing one. But then I got to see one in person and I worried the next magazine might be it's last. They had definitely seen a full service life.

    I was looking at both Dutch and Sudanese variants.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

    كافر

  8. #18
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  9. #19
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    The gent in the above video is purported to be Eugene Stoner handling the Hollywood AR10s.

    Hollywood AR10s were made in California between roughly 1955 and 1959 by Armalite-Firchild. The Hollywood guns were serial number 1001 to 1047 and included infantry, sniper, and belt fed models (according to Reed Knight). There are called "humpbacks: because the the unique shape of the carry handle. The gas tube ran down the left side of the barrel.

    The Dutch AR10s were made in Holland from 1957 to 1961 by Artillerie Inrichtingen (AI) under license from Armalite. The major variants of the Dutch AR10 are listed below.

    Cuban Model (1957-1958)
    Sudanese Contract (1958-1959)
    Guatemalan Contract (1959)
    Transitional Model (1958-1961)
    Portuguese Contract (1960-1961)

    There are other small run variants such as the KLM airline survival rifles and Dutch military / police trials rifles.

    The Transitional AR10s included a diverse variation, such as belt feds, SAWs, semi-autos, carbines, as well as experimental charging handles and bolt carriers.

    It is difficult to know the total number of AR10s made by the Dutch. The variants did not re-use serial numbers and the last rifles had serials in the very low 9000's. However, there were more receivers made than rifles due to the occasional failure. After the AI factory closed many of the spare parts were used in the 1960s to render guns for use by Dutch sport shooters. Most of these post-1961 Dutch rifles had Transitional features. However, the interchangeability of parts between variants often resulted in some real mutts.
    Last edited by HHollow; 05-26-20 at 12:04.

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