M16A4: Colt vs FN

[flenna]

I want one.

[SteyrAUG]

Interesting that we're still offloading M16s onto the ANA and Iraqis. Wonder why we didn't just standardize them on the M4; if we're going to be producing them new to give away, why not?

Are those A4s or A2s we are giving away? I think some groups like the USMC will always maintain an inventory of 20" rifles no matter what the current designation is. So long as what we do is mostly urban we will get away with a "carbine" platform and it will be the most practical, but if we ever end up in the woods and fields someplace like europe we are going to want a long distance rifle again.

Problem is we planned for fighting the Russians somplace like Ukraine and instead ended up in Vietnam with a less than ideal rifle and we tried to come up with a practical modification with the XM177, which sadly had performance issues. We briefly fought the Iraqis with A2s and some M4 variants but not long enough for the rifle to be a major consideration.

Then we went to Afghanistan and Iraq again where we learned the M4 is generally more practical than the A4 except in some mountainous terrain and things like that. As a jack of all trades rifle the M4 does as well as anything I can think of for kicking doors, hunting in caves and moving in and out of vehicles and still being capable of taking the odd long shot at 400 yards or more as needed.

But it's probably prudent to maintain some A4s just in case we need something like that. We generally end up in places nobody expected us to have to go to.

[Uni-Vibe]

Went to the range today, perfect day.

As almost always, I passed over my relatively new 6920, in favor of my 1999 Bushmaster* M16A2 clone. Round handguards, fixed carry handle, fixed stock, 20" govt profile barrel (NOT HBAR). Everybody that sees it likes to shoot it. It's cool.



____________________________________
*Laugh all y'all want, but I think the old Quality Parts Co. Bushies were built pretty well. They were MP and proof-load tested individually. Mine has fired many many rounds, and has only needed a new firing pin.

[Alpha-17]

M4's carry the perception of an elite unit. The ANA/ANP are definitely NOT that.

With them maybe, but definitely not on the US side of things. Not any more, anyway.

Are those A4s or A2s we are giving away? I think some groups like the USMC will always maintain an inventory of 20" rifles no matter what the current designation is. So long as what we do is mostly urban we will get away with a "carbine" platform and it will be the most practical, but if we ever end up in the woods and fields someplace like europe we are going to want a long distance rifle again.

Problem is we planned for fighting the Russians somplace like Ukraine and instead ended up in Vietnam with a less than ideal rifle and we tried to come up with a practical modification with the XM177, which sadly had performance issues. We briefly fought the Iraqis with A2s and some M4 variants but not long enough for the rifle to be a major consideration.

Then we went to Afghanistan and Iraq again where we learned the M4 is generally more practical than the A4 except in some mountainous terrain and things like that. As a jack of all trades rifle the M4 does as well as anything I can think of for kicking doors, hunting in caves and moving in and out of vehicles and still being capable of taking the odd long shot at 400 yards or more as needed.

But it's probably prudent to maintain some A4s just in case we need something like that. We generally end up in places nobody expected us to have to go to.

Both? I saw mostly A2s with the Iraqis, but a few A4s. The article talks specifically about giving them A4s, so

And I very much doubt we'll ever go back to a 20" AR. The Marines "officially" switched to the M4 years ago, and M16s have long since been phased out of combat units in the Army. Can't say I saw a single M16 after about '07 with an Infantry unit, and even that one was only if they were scraping the bottom of the barrel. The M4 is just a better balance of factors than an M16, and if you need the extra range, a DMR or GPMG will do the job far better than an M16 will. The M4 is here to stay, at least until we finally move on from the AR system. It just follows the normal trend of firearms since the musket to go with shorter, lighter, and smaller unless there's a drastic increase in ability. (M1903 to Garand for instance)

[Slater]

FWIW, combing through the Excess Defense Articles listing (because I have nothing better to do at the moment) these are some of the M16 transfers in recent years. This is from categories of Offered and Accepted:

2017 M16A2 Qty 350 Guatemala
2017 "Rifle, 5.56mm" Qty 5212 Lebanon
2017 M16A2 Qty 908 Morocco
2017 M16A4 Qty 3000 Morocco
2017 M16A1 Qty 1018 Morocco
2017 M16A2 Qty 20,000 Morocco
2017 M16A2 Qty 35,000 Morocco
2017 M16A1 Qty 1455 Morocco
2016 M16A2 Qty 50,345 Morocco
2017 M16A2 Qty 8934 Morocco
2016 M16A4 Qty 9232 Morocco
2016 M16A1 Qty 16,221 Morocco
2104 "Rifle" Qty 20,000 Jordan
2015 "Rifle, 5.56mm" Qty 16,503 Israel
2014 M16A1 Qty 195 Israel
2013 M16A1 Qty 79 Israel
2015 M16A2 Qty 19,940 Israel
2014 "Rifle, 5.56mm CC=A3" Qty 16,503 Israel
2014 "Rifle" Qty 30,000 Jordan
2013 "Rifle" Qty 50,000 Moroco

[mrbieler]

I regret not picking up one of the surplus/over run A4 uppers at the end of last year. Maybe we'll see more show up in the near future.

[ABNAK]

FWIW, combing through the Excess Defense Articles listing (because I have nothing better to do at the moment) these are some of the M16 transfers in recent years. This is from categories of Offered and Accepted:

2017 M16A2 Qty 350 Guatemala
2017 "Rifle, 5.56mm" Qty 5212 Lebanon
2017 M16A2 Qty 908 Morocco
2017 M16A4 Qty 3000 Morocco
2017 M16A1 Qty 1018 Morocco
2017 M16A2 Qty 20,000 Morocco
2017 M16A2 Qty 35,000 Morocco
2017 M16A1 Qty 1455 Morocco
2016 M16A2 Qty 50,345 Morocco
2017 M16A2 Qty 8934 Morocco
2016 M16A4 Qty 9232 Morocco
2016 M16A1 Qty 16,221 Morocco
2104 "Rifle" Qty 20,000 Jordan
2015 "Rifle, 5.56mm" Qty 16,503 Israel
2014 M16A1 Qty 195 Israel
2013 M16A1 Qty 79 Israel
2015 M16A2 Qty 19,940 Israel
2014 "Rifle, 5.56mm CC=A3" Qty 16,503 Israel
2014 "Rifle" Qty 30,000 Jordan
2013 "Rifle" Qty 50,000 Moroco

WTF? Morocco got a little under 200,000 by my quick tally in the last 7 years.

[Uni-Vibe]

ISIS likes the M16A2. There are plenty of photos of ISIS fighters carrying them.