Ahmaud Arbery Shooting

[WillBrink]

This is self defense 101 I thought. Once they are no longer a deadly threat you must disengage.
.

Playing devils advocate, gun was lowered/not pointed at Arbery, kid lunged for the gun, and they tussled for it, at which point he shoots the kid. Is that self defense at that point? As Colion points out, did the kid think it was a couple of rednecks out to kill him and he decided to take action and get the gun and in that move, he was trying to save his own life?

I don't know the answers but Colion and Tatum present some valid points.

[marco.g]

Playing devils advocate, gun was lowered/not pointed at Arbery, kid lunged for the gun, and they tussled for it, at which point he shoots the kid. Is that self defense at that point? As Colion points out, did the kid think it was a couple of rednecks out to kill him and he decided to take action and get the gun and in that move, he was trying to save his own life?

I don't know the answers but Colion and Tatum present some valid points.

I’m guessing that’s where the case will hinge.

Playing hypotheticals - if the facts reveal they were going out looking for a robbery suspect armed. Would they still be able to claim self defense?

I was under the impression you are no longer entitled to that defense if you initiate the encounter. Obviously every state has its own laws and intricacies.

[Ron3]

If they didn't witness a forcible felony I doubt threatening lethal force (displaying a gun in threatening manner) is justified. In that case Florida calls that aggravated assault with a firearm. A felony.

If the running man is proven to have been fleeing a crime he committed, does he retain the right to self-defense? If yes, he has the right to attack a guy threatening him with a gun. If he does not have that right he would be guilty of battery against the man with a shotgun.

IF THAT were the case the disparity of force is in favor of two men with guns vs one apparently unarmed man. Lethal force would not be justified by the men with guns.

Without more information and knowing GA. Law I could see everything from not guilty, to aggravated assault, to manslaughter, or even 2nd degree murder.

We need to know what the running man did and what the father son thought he did to determine a proper outcome.

So far it sounds like they did not witness anything that gave them the right to threaten deadly force against the running man. I'm guessing the two with guns are at least guilty of that felony.

Interesting case.

[WickedWillis]

Playing devils advocate, gun was lowered/not pointed at Arbery, kid lunged for the gun, and they tussled for it, at which point he shoots the kid. Is that self defense at that point? As Colion points out, did the kid think it was a couple of rednecks out to kill him and he decided to take action and get the gun and in that move, he was trying to save his own life?

I don't know the answers but Colion and Tatum present some valid points.

I think you hit on some very good points.

Dude was obviously in fear for his life, would any of us caught unarmed in a situation like this not go out fighting? Trying to get the firearm away from the aggressor?

Is this enough cause to pull the self defense card for these two?

I do think that will be the defenses only chance in court is saying these two guys were fearful, after Arbery went for their guns, of their life. I still don't think it has legs at all whatsoever.

Two guys vs One (force multiplier) armed with guns (force multiplier in terms of weapons) even if he thought "This is it, these rednecks want to kill me, I have to go for one of their guns" they had way too many numbers in people, and arms to say that this is a self defense.

[WillBrink]

I think you hit on some very good points.

Dude was obviously in fear for his life, would any of us caught unarmed in a situation like this not go out fighting? Trying to get the firearm away from the aggressor?

Is this enough cause to pull the self defense card for these two?

I do think that will be the defenses only chance in court is saying these two guys were fearful, after Arbery went for their guns, of their life. I still don't think it has legs at all whatsoever.

Two guys vs One (force multiplier) armed with guns (force multiplier in terms of weapons) even if he thought "This is it, these rednecks want to kill me, I have to go for one of their guns" they had way too many numbers in people, and arms to say that this is a self defense.

I'd be interested to know what words were exchanged also.

[OH58D]

How about just following the guy from a distance and calling the Cops? The neighbor who recorded this event should have been on the phone with professionals, not doing voyeur cam.

[Ron3]

How about just following the guy from a distance and calling the Cops? The neighbor who recorded this event should have been on the phone with professionals, not doing voyeur cam.

I wouldn't debate what they did was dumb. It was. To me the only debate is are they guilty of any crimes and / or which ones.

[HKGuns]

I 100% support your right to protect your property and life, but you go off your property and things go sideways. It just might bite you.

In most States protecting property will land you in Jail, unless inside your home.

There are precious few protections in place for chasing someone down and killing them. Property crime or otherwise. You certainly aren’t in fear for your life whilst chasing someone down.

Assuming that is what happened here.

Let the facts come out in the trial and reserve judgment until then.

[BoringGuy45]

I think you hit on some very good points.

Dude was obviously in fear for his life, would any of us caught unarmed in a situation like this not go out fighting? Trying to get the firearm away from the aggressor?

Is this enough cause to pull the self defense card for these two?

I do think that will be the defenses only chance in court is saying these two guys were fearful, after Arbery went for their guns, of their life. I still don't think it has legs at all whatsoever.

Two guys vs One (force multiplier) armed with guns (force multiplier in terms of weapons) even if he thought "This is it, these rednecks want to kill me, I have to go for one of their guns" they had way too many numbers in people, and arms to say that this is a self defense.

I couldn't agree more.

Furthermore, I don't understand the people who are saying that Arbery had it coming for trying to fight back. If two guys in a pickup truck jump out and point a gun at me, I can only assume they mean to murder, rob, or kidnap me, or all of the above. If I'm unarmed, and can't run and get to cover, I'm left with two options: 1) Go down fighting, 2) Get on my knees, close my eyes, and say, "Lord, into your hands I commit my spirit." Arbery did the only thing he could. I know Tatum was questioning why Arbery didn't turn and run the other way. Well, maybe because he thought he'd get shot in the back, or because they were in a truck, he would eventually be caught.

I also, I do strongly suspect that racism had a hand in this. I know it may not be conservative to suggest that racism still exists but...it does. Yes, this isn't proof that black people can't go "anywhere" without fear anymore than a single active shoot proves that "nobody" can be trusted with an AR-15. No doubt thousands of black people went jogging through white neighborhoods in Georgia that day without any reaction other than a couple friendly waves. But the fact is, I think these guys were thinking that if a black guy was in their neighborhood, he could only be up to no good.

At any rate, there was nothing reasonable about the McMichaels' actions before or during this incident.

[jsbhike]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj...ng-11588956106

Check the letter from DA Barnhill.

After reading all his experts credentials, are "muzzles" really referred to as "barrel tips" in officialdom? Also, his trigger pull story sounds like BS as well.