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Thread: Ahmaud Arbery Shooting

  1. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esq. View Post
    Certainly true. But the FIRST hurdle is local....Look at the Joe Horn shooting in Houston for a counter example to McMichaels.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Ho...ng_controversy
    And that seemed to be different in almost every way than what happened in Georgia.

  2. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsbhike View Post
    And that seemed to be different in almost every way than what happened in Georgia.
    Yes and no. Joe Horn was 1. Defending his neighbors home, not his own. 2. He said on the 911 recording that he was going to KILL the guys. You of course KNOW that's NOT WHAT we do...we shoot people to stop them from threatening us with great bodily injury or death.....Because the shooting was in the daytime, he was outside of the Texas law that allows lethal force for defense of property....Long story short, it was a questionable shooting and a serious DA could have made things very difficult for Mr. Horn.
    The truth can only offend those who live a lie.

  3. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esq. View Post
    Yes and no. Joe Horn was 1. Defending his neighbors home, not his own. 2. He said on the 911 recording that he was going to KILL the guys. You of course KNOW that's NOT WHAT we do...we shoot people to stop them from threatening us with great bodily injury or death.....Because the shooting was in the daytime, he was outside of the Texas law that allows lethal force for defense of property....Long story short, it was a questionable shooting and a serious DA could have made things very difficult for Mr. Horn.
    Unless I am mistaken, he actually knew the neighbor which is different than the McMichaels situation.

    The 2 perps involved:
    - were actually committing a crime
    -outnumbered him
    -truly did advance upon him.

  4. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esq. View Post
    ...Do you think he was going to be in a hurry to bust in the neighbors house that day?
    Well, let's see. I live where the median home price is somewhere near $350K. In a $550K subdivision on a Sunday during a birthday party with loads of people coming and going, someone breaks in NEXT DOOR!!! ... The whole damn subdivision and many others and he breaks in and gets away next to a crowd of Sunday afternoon party goers.

    Next there was the young white female mother that was taking her kid to school each morning and then going out an breaking in homes.

    Both of those occurred during the economic downturn.

    I think you are looking at the entire country through your local lens. How you could conclude that probably most of us here do not learn, train, use video, protect our homes, etc. seems off.

    I get what you are saying and you have some good suggestions but you transition from "A certain segment" in one post to we're all "LAZY" or a cop out in another.

    The fact you believe trouble is on the horizon is not necessarily a one size fits all scenario. The fact you believe that what you do is 'the way' simply will not apply across all of society.

    If it works for you and your neighbors then great. Probably 95% of us don't live in that type situation and different reactions and techniques are called for. How you can interpret that alternate solution as lazy, uncaring, and all the other negative aspects really doesn't carry much water from my perspective.

    Remember this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNQi1_R4z4g Every situation, every locality, everything is different. These people were certainly "identified" visually. Didn't seem to make a lot of difference.

    Your little chit chat session with Mr. Football is also not fooling anyone nor is it likely a deterrent. Not to mention the fact if the guy was a criminal, he could simply be the scout for a team. At the least he now knows part of your defense system. So no, if the guy was a criminal, I don't think you deterred him as a universal technique that would apply to the masses. Now I've seen some cookie cutter subdivisions from TX and maybe if he could be seen from three blocks away, sure. Lot's of places around here you can't even see into your neighbors yard.

    The last thing I want where I live are the McMichaels or Zimmerman because they seem to get the order of safety/importance in the wrong order. They seem to have taken the "road to hell" in the express lane. Nice to have a neighborhood safe situation going on but I wouldn't want them running the show.
    Last edited by tb-av; 05-27-20 at 17:23.

  5. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsbhike View Post
    Unless I am mistaken, he actually knew the neighbor which is different than the McMichaels situation.
    Horn told the dispatcher that he doesn't know the neighbors well, unlike those living on the other side of his home. "I can assure you if it had been their house, I would have already done something, because I know them very well," he said.
    .....

  6. #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by tb-av View Post
    .....
    Doesn't know well is a step up from never met one and only met the other 1 time.

    https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/...arberys-death/

    "Prior to Feb. 23, according to Graddy, English had never met Gregory McMichael. English said he met Travis McMichael once last summer when McMichael and his young son passed by the English property in a boat."

  7. #487
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  8. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by tb-av View Post
    Well, let's see. I live where the median home price is somewhere near $350K. In a $550K subdivision on a Sunday during a birthday party with loads of people coming and going, someone breaks in NEXT DOOR!!! ... The whole damn subdivision and many others and he breaks in and gets away next to a crowd of Sunday afternoon party goers.

    Next there was the young white female mother that was taking her kid to school each morning and then going out an breaking in homes.

    Both of those occurred during the economic downturn.

    I think you are looking at the entire country through your local lens. How you could conclude that probably most of us here do not learn, train, use video, protect our homes, etc. seems off.

    I get what you are saying and you have some good suggestions but you transition from "A certain segment" in one post to we're all "LAZY" or a cop out in another.

    The fact you believe trouble is on the horizon is not necessarily a one size fits all scenario. The fact you believe that what you do is 'the way' simply will not apply across all of society.

    If it works for you and your neighbors then great. Probably 95% of us don't live in that type situation and different reactions and techniques are called for. How you can interpret that alternate solution as lazy, uncaring, and all the other negative aspects really doesn't carry much water from my perspective.

    Remember this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNQi1_R4z4g Every situation, every locality, everything is different. These people were certainly "identified" visually. Didn't seem to make a lot of difference.

    Your little chit chat session with Mr. Football is also not fooling anyone nor is it likely a deterrent. Not to mention the fact if the guy was a criminal, he could simply be the scout for a team. At the least he now knows part of your defense system. So no, if the guy was a criminal, I don't think you deterred him as a universal technique that would apply to the masses. Now I've seen some cookie cutter subdivisions from TX and maybe if he could be seen from three blocks away, sure. Lot's of places around here you can't even see into your neighbors yard.

    The last thing I want where I live are the McMichaels or Zimmerman because they seem to get the order of safety/importance in the wrong order. They seem to have taken the "road to hell" in the express lane. Nice to have a neighborhood safe situation going on but I wouldn't want them running the show.
    Zimmerman did nothing wrong other than trust the police not to rail road him.
    The truth can only offend those who live a lie.

  9. #489
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    This is unfolding worse than I thought.
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/04/us/mc...ery/index.html

    "William Bryan told investigators he heard Travis McMichael use a racial epithet after fatally shooting Ahmaud Arbery in Glynn County, a Georgia Bureau of Investigation agent testified Thursday during preliminary hearings.
    Bryan told police McMichael said "f***ing n***er" after three blasts from McMichael's shotgun left Arbery dead in February the streets of the Satilla Shores neighborhood"

    "there were "numerous times" on social media and via messaging that McMichael used the same slur, replying to an Instagram message sometime before the shooting "

    "The allegations came as Dial outlined the events that led to Arbery's death and told the court that before Arbery was shot, the three men charged in his murder engaged in an elaborate chase, hitting the 25-year-old jogger with a truck as he repeatedly tried to avoid them."

  10. #490
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    The "he attacked me" narrative is really falling to pieces.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/04/us/mc...ery/index.html

    William Bryan told investigators he heard Travis McMichael use a racial epithet after fatally shooting Ahmaud Arbery in Glynn County, Georgia, a Georgia Bureau of Investigation agent testified Thursday during preliminary hearings.

    Bryan told police McMichael said "f***ing n***er" after three blasts from McMichael's shotgun left Arbery dead in February the streets of the Satilla Shores neighborhood, Assistant Special Agent in Charge Richard Dial said.

    Body camera footage also showed a Confederate flag sticker on the toolbox of McMichael's truck, Dial said.

    The allegations came as Dial outlined the events that led to Arbery's death and told the court that before Arbery was shot, the three men charged in his murder engaged in an elaborate chase, hitting the 25-year-old jogger with a truck as he repeatedly tried to avoid them.

    As Travis and Gregory McMichael attempted to head him off, Arbery turned and ran past the truck of Bryan, who filmed the killing, and Bryan struck Arbery with the side of his truck, Dial said.
    The new details of the final moments of Arbery's life emerged amid a week of nationwide protests over another killing -- that of George Floyd by police in Minneapolis -- and demonstrators have also called for justice in Arbery's case.

    Investigators found a swipe from a palm print on the rear door of Bryan's truck, cotton fibers near the truck bed that "we attribute to contact with Mr. Arbery" and a dent below the fibers, he said.

    Though Bryan's attorney has contested allegations his client took part in the killing, Dial said Bryan first became involved by yelling to the McMichaels, "Do you got him?" when he saw them chasing the 25-year-old jogger. The McMichaels and Bryan have not entered pleas, but lawyers for all three men have proclaimed their innocence.
    After yelling out to the McMichaels about Arbery, Bryan joined the chase, and at this point, none of the three had called 911, Dial said.

    The McMichaels had already tried to head off Arbery once when Bryan joined the pursuit, the GBI agent said. Bryan tried to block in Arbery as Travis McMichael drove around the block with his father in the bed of the truck.

    Bryan "made several statements about trying to block him in and using his vehicle to try to stop him," Dial said. "His statement was that Mr. Arbery kept jumping out of the way and moving around the bumper and actually running down into the ditch in an attempt to avoid his truck."

    At one point, Arbery was heading out of the Satilla Shores neighborhood where the defendants live, but the McMichaels forced him to turn back into the neighborhood and run past Bryan, the agent said. That is when he struck Arbery, Dial said, and Arbery kept running with the McMichaels in pursuit. Bryan turned around, and that is where the widely disseminated video of Arbery's killing begins, he said.
    (highlights by me)

    And Ninja'd by Chubbs103!
    Last edited by jbjh; 06-04-20 at 13:36.

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