Basic accuracy,
Ease of finding a folding brace, accuracy, ergonomics, etc.
I would like to hear about before I embark on yet another find the perfect AR replacement journey.
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Senior Member
Basic accuracy,
Ease of finding a folding brace, accuracy, ergonomics, etc.
I would like to hear about before I embark on yet another find the perfect AR replacement journey.
“Where weapons may not be carried, it is well to carry weapons.”
Member
I have the 7.62x39. It is 1 3/4 moa. I have about 8000 on it. You can buy it with a tailhook on gb.
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i had the will power to not buy guns. I even bought a gun store and work for a company that manufactures the forging machines for said guns. I need help.
Senior Member
Over three thousand on my 7.62X39 gun. 9 Inch barrel.
Ergo's are very similar to an AR15. Its a comfortable gun to shoot but its over gassed.
Folding braces are easy to adapt since the receiver end plate that comes with it is set up ready for an AR15 buffer tube.
Folding braces can get REALLY expensive. A dan haga setup with say an ACR stock and Tail hook is pushing 500 dollars. Factory Bren 2 stocks will run about two hundred.
There is no suppressor setting on the gas block on the pistol variants. The carbine has one but i have yet to read about anyone suppressing theirs as they've only been available for a few weeks.
Its a really good gun all in all but its not "better" than an AR15 in any way shape or form, its just different.
If you want something different, go for it. If you want something in 7.62X39 its an EXCELLENT option. Dont waste your money on the clear magazines though, they're garbage.
You are a genuine toolbag if you have your EDC "loadout" in your signature line...
Senior Member
Thanks.
I plan on an 8 inch 5.56 one.
I’m kind of bummed about the AR tube adapter though vs other options. The one on the back of my PTR .308 pistol is not a direct adapter for many options.
I hope they got magwell compatibility down on this and the selector is not “off” like many others have been.
By “better than an AR” I mean equivalent or better accuracy, reliability, and durability with time saving ergonomics.
“Where weapons may not be carried, it is well to carry weapons.”
Senior Member
Has anyone seen the 16" on the market yet? I would really be interested in one and I know MAC just did a video on it.
Dr. Carter G. Woodson, “History shows that it does not matter who is in power or what revolutionary forces take over the government, those who have not learned to do for themselves and have to depend solely on others never obtain any more rights or privileges in the end than they had in the beginning.”
Member
There were a few on gb for $1699Originally Posted by Hank6046
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i had the will power to not buy guns. I even bought a gun store and work for a company that manufactures the forging machines for said guns. I need help.
Member
I've spent more time doing dry drills than shooting the past few years, but here's my experience with a 14" 5.56 Bren 2S:
Safety
The safety has a 45* throw from safe to fire and uses an absurdly overbuilt spring loaded cam for the detents. It is stiff and gritty when new, but after 2 years of dry drills it's now very smooth and requires much less force to move out of fire or safe positions. I find its position on the lower receiver and stiffness (even after two years) to require the use of the base of the trigger finger just forward of the knuckle to have enough advantage to quickly return to safe without strain or breaking grip. I actually find this to be faster, more ergonomic, and require less grip gymnastics than returning an AR15 to safe, but YMMV.
The off-side of the ambi safety does have a tendency to dig into the firing finger just forward of the knuckle if an aggressive high grip is used. Holding where the web of the hand enters the thinnest part of the grip, or reaching around the safety to access the trigger, alleviate the issue and still allow fast control manipulation.
Bolt catch/release
The bolt catch is located in the trigger guard and is easily actuated by the trigger finger or offside thumb, both for manual bolt catch and for bolt release. As long as the safety is engaged before every mag, this shouldn't be an issue. I wouldn't use it if I couldn't get the safety on for some reason. The AR15 type paddle is always available on the left side of the receiver.
I would prefer to have this control to either side outside the trigger guard, ala the ARX100, but I still prefer it to the AR15 type paddle. I'm confident it would be possible to make an aftermarket part to access this control from outside the trigger guard.
Accuracy
I don't have much info here. No match ammo was tested and I believe the quality of the ammo I used to be suspect. The only test I've done used Hornady Frontier 55gr FMJ on a windy day from a bag rest on a concrete bench. Because of the wind and short time available, the test was conducted at 25 yards using a 5x Primary Arms scope. The largest group measured 11/16ths which equates to 2.62 MOA or roughly 2.75" at 100 yards.
The barrels are cold hammer forged, nitrided on the exterior, with chrome lined bores.
An aside on cold hammer forging:
My opinion on cold hammer forging has turned sour of late. Cold hammer forging should give a little more barrel life before keyholing starts, but from what I can tell, it's a hard to manage process that can easily result in new barrels performing worse accuracy wise than comparable button rifled barrels unless strict quality controls are in place. This can negate any barrel life advantage if life is measured in terms of group size rather than when keyholing begins, as seen with some lower end Kalashnikov barrels.
Further, new stress relief techniques are coming into the industry that allow pencil profile barrels to not shift POI as they heat up. Those methods can't be used with cold hammer forged barrels, as they have stresses that can't be completely relieved.
Reliability
The Bren 2 exhibits the same quirk as many non AR15 rifles that use AR15 magazines: a lack of support for the feedlips leading to losing the top round in the mag out the ejection port if it is inserted on an open bolt too energetically. I've experienced this with both USGI and Lancer magazines, but only if slamming the mags in harshly on an open bolt. Changing mags as quickly as I can, the way I did in competition, does not cause the issue.
The Bren 2 features an Adverse gas setting. I'm willing to bet this goes a long way to improving function in case of silt/dust/grit debris ingress.
All other information I have on this comes from CZ demo vids. They do appear to feature the Bren 2 being dropped from 10+ meter heights, run over, and completely buried in sand with successful full auto firing immediately afterward.
An interested observation: the Bren 2 features a clearence cut between the carrier and receiver along the bottom of the ejection port. This would allow debris to fall into the receiver between carrier and receiver, against the right side between the magazine and magazine well. I'd speculate this was done to prevent debris build up here to pass some specific test.
Stock/Brace Issues
The M4 buffer tube adapter is wobbly on both examples I own, but adequate. It can be tightened up with some simple DIY if desired.
Factory folding stocks are made of the same very lightweight carbon fiber composite and cost about $200, but are hard to get at the moment. This is expected to change in the coming months.
Dan Haga makes an adapter that allows the use of the Magpul ACR stock, but it partially blocks the ejection port when folded and also requires removing a screw to remove the stock for cleaning.
IIRC, two different companies are working on folding braces or brace adapters for the factory folding stock for the Bren 2.
Suppressor Use
The Bren 2 pistols lack a suppressor setting on the rotating gas selector cylinder that will cycle the weapon. They do, however feature an off setting that simply lacks a gas port. It should be a simple task for a gunsmith to drill a smaller gas port here and transform "off" into "suppressed." The gas cylinder is also an easily replaced part, should CZ offer them as spares.
My 14" 5.56 Bren 2S works well on the normal gas setting using a Silencerco Omega. The 14" does have very small gas ports in the gas cylinder and the Omega is a .30 cal can, so that may have something to do with it. I do not notice a large amount of gas near my face when shooting nor a significant increase in felt recoil.
I haven't tried my 9" Bren 2MS in 7.62x39 suppressed yet, but I have noticed that its gas ports are at least 4-6x larger than those on the 14" 5.56' gas cylinder. At least one other user has reported harsh recoil and gas in the shooter's face with a suppressor using a 9" 7.62x39 Bren 2MS.
Final Thoughts
The Bren 2 has a pretty fantastic design story. It was essentially made by spec ops, for spec ops. The story involves a former high-level Czech spec ops guy somehow becoming involved with CZ and ends up with him and his kind of people having a lot of control over the design and testing of the weapon, based on their combat experience with the Bren 805 in Afghanistan. Considering that the Bren 805 was an overweight pre production proof of concept made of aluminum, instead of the intended polymer, that got shoved into production by bureaucracy, makes the Bren 2's design and adoption just five years later that much more unique.
The Bren 2 has no "sproing" in your ear, it's lighter than most other Not-An-AR15 options and features a folding stock (or will soon), consistently reported <3 MOA accuracy, faster than AR controls, and potentially better than AR adverse condition performance. Parts life remains to be seen, but the G36 and SCAR 16 have good reputations in that area and the Bren 2's design is similar. Barrels can be changed without need for a workbench, hand tools only. CZ has a good reputation for providing spare parts for the old Bren 805, including barrels, and the Bren 2 appears to be finding a warm reception in the American Not-An-AR15 market so far.
The Bren 2 is enjoying some military success, equipping the Czech Army, Hungarian Army, French GIGN (in 7.62x39), with other countries considering it or adopting it in small numbers.
After getting burned by the ARX100, which I really liked other than its 6-7 MOA accuracy and Beretta's appalling standards for integrity and treatment of customers, the Bren 2 is pretty much what I wanted the ARX100 to be. It's the Not-An-AR15 I've been looking for. I love mine.
Last edited by Aries144; 05-15-20 at 17:29.
Senior Member
This is an absolutely fantastic, detailed, and useful response.
It is very helpful.
Thank you.
“Where weapons may not be carried, it is well to carry weapons.”
Senior Member
Is the magazine well on the lower the same for 5.56x45 and 7.62x39? Will AR15 7.62x39 magazines work in the 7.62x39 Bren 2?
Member
"Sort of" and "Maybe."
The Bren 2's magwell is designed to accept 7.62x39 magazines the width of AK mags in that caliber. The factory mags have similar external dimensions to Magpul AK mags and, in fact, Magpul AK mags have been successfully modified to function with the Bren 2, though they don't activate the bolt catch when empty.
The 5.56 versions of the Bren 2 use a removable polymer insert in the magwell to choke it down for STANAG mags. It may be possible to use CProducts AR15 7.62x39 mags in the 7.62x39 version of the Bren 2, if the 5.56 magwell insert is fitted. I don't think this has been tried yet.
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