Alan Dershowitz says the state has every right to ‘plunge a needle into your arm’ and

[Averageman]

I've not had "The Flu" (whatever that means now) for over twenty years, in that time I have never been vaccinated.
Following the political/scientific drama going along with COVID-19, I don't see the risk versus reward in stepping up to the front of the line for a vaccine that's being rushed through the system.
Honestly, the political climate makes trusting the people wanting me to take a vaccination a little shaky.
When Cuomo gets a pass for filling Old Folks Homes with Corona Virus infected patients and that virus starts burning through the Elderly population in those homes, he's allowed to say "Old People are Going to Die." and nobody in the MSM is going to call him out?
Nope, I think I can wait until 2021, if I need one at all.

[REDinFL]

Why, then is a consent form required for everything else, if one has "no right to refuse?" Or, is the law bendable based on the politics? The professor? Maybe a collective curtain - "Don't look at the man behind the curtain" just do what he/she/it say.

BTW, I take the flu shot because I want the flu shot. When force is involved or implied, I get suspicious.

[Life's a Hillary]

So requiring vaccines is akin to requiring people not to drive 100 mph down the freeway. Oh my aching head.

It must hurt if you read my post and that was the message you came away with. You can lead a horse to water and all that.

[Life's a Hillary]

Now the second part of that sentence cuts both ways: I see it as lemming-like 'tardedness if you rush out and eagerly get the flu shot, feel "under the weather" for a day or two, and also risk the potential side effects for what, maybe an average 45% (as of Feb. 2020) effectiveness? No thanks, but that's my opinion, you have yours.

I’ve literally never had a side effect other than the actual poke in the arm from the flu shot and Target gives me $5 to get it done. I’ve had the flu and that’s miserable so I’ll take getting paid to lessen my chance of getting the flu even if it’s not fully effective.

However, I see that wildly different from vaccines like measles. If you don’t think people should get those then you’re a special kind of stupid.

As far as requiring the COVID vaccine, I would not support that for multiple reasons but if it went through all the rigors that a vaccine should I would not oppose getting it. But I’m also not concerned about being microchipped and think we are in a police state ruled by an evil child sacrificing cabal that meets in the basement of a pizza place.

[THCDDM4]

Regardless of the efficacy or effectiveness of the flu shot or any other vaccine for that matter, people should not be forced to take them by the state. Period. That goes so opposite of the idea of Liberty, individual rights and what this country "stood" for, should be "stands" for...

Sure, anti-vaxers are typically drooling tin foil hatters, but I don't want them to be forced to take vaccines if they do not consent to.

I am MUCH more concerned with folks who want the State to force others to do things against their will without their consent than I am a bunch of silly people that don't want and fear vaccines. Most of the anti-vaxxers live in Portland Oregon and California anyways, so who cares, most of the illegals in CALI don't have their vaccines anyways.

Not everyone who doesn't want vaccinations is worried about the "child sacrificing pizza cabal". Some of them do it for religious reasons, some are truly afraid of the vaccines based on misinformation, some people just don't want to take them.

It's unconstitutional, and very wrong to force people to be vaccinated without their consent.

Are we in a total police state, no. But when a dude on his surf board out into e ocean alone on an empty beach is arrested and taken to jail for disobeying a dictate of a governor, or when a restaurant gets their license pulled for opening up against the will of a governor; not for breaking laws, just for not following orders from politicians- I can't say we are NOT in some type of soft police state.

[chuckman]

Regardless of the efficacy or effectiveness of the flu shot or any other vaccine for that matter, people should not be forced to take them by the state. Period. That goes so opposite of the idea of Liberty, individual rights and what this country "stood" for, should be "stands" for...

Sure, anti-vaxers are typically drooling tin foil hatters, but I don't want them to be forced to take vaccines if they do not consent to.

I am MUCH more concerned with folks who want the State to force others to do things against their will without their consent than I am a bunch of silly people that don't want and fear vaccines. Most of the anti-vaxxers live in Portland Oregon and California anyways, so who cares, most of the illegals in CALI don't have their vaccines anyways.

Not everyone who doesn't want vaccinations is worried about the "child sacrificing pizza cabal". Some of them do it for religious reasons, some are truly afraid of the vaccines based on misinformation, some people just don't want to take them.

It's unconstitutional, and very wrong to force people to be vaccinated without their consent.

Are we in a total police state, no. But when a dude on his surf board out into e ocean alone on an empty beach is arrested and taken to jail for disobeying a dictate of a governor, or when a restaurant gets their license pulled for opening up against the will of a governor; not for breaking laws, just for not following orders from politicians- I can't say we are NOT in some type of soft police state.

Agreed. While you can argue that some vaccines are more important than others, you cannot mandate that someone should have any. To say 'I think this one should be mandatory, but it's OK to refuse that one' misses the entire point by miles.

[ABNAK]

I’ve literally never had a side effect other than the actual poke in the arm from the flu shot and Target gives me $5 to get it done. I’ve had the flu and that’s miserable so I’ll take getting paid to lessen my chance of getting the flu even if it’s not fully effective.

However, I see that wildly different from vaccines like measles. If you don’t think people should get those then you’re a special kind of stupid.

As far as requiring the COVID vaccine, I would not support that for multiple reasons but if it went through all the rigors that a vaccine should I would not oppose getting it. But I’m also not concerned about being microchipped and think we are in a police state ruled by an evil child sacrificing cabal that meets in the basement of a pizza place.

Agreed on that for sure.

What is it, measles/mumps/rubella, polio, and smallpox? I have the little circle scar on the back of my arm from the smallpox one (born in '65 so they were still doing it then). I'm not sure if mumps was given then or not because I had the mumps as a child, on "both sides" as they used to say.

I remember after 9-11 when there was talk of smallpox possibly being used as a bio-weapon. At the time there was some speculation as to whether the smallpox vaccines given decades before (like me) were still offering protection or not after all that time.

[chuckman]

Anti-vax people are a special breed of stupid and I’m at least glad they are in both the Democrat and Republican parties so I don’t have to exclusively side with a bunch of morons. It is sad that the party that is supposed to be about common sense and factual based arguments has so many that falls victim to so many of these moronic anti-vax talking points that have been debunked time after time. It’s like talking to a gun grabber, you can show them the cold hard data and they stick their head in the sand.

Interestingly, the medical-industrial complex labels anyone who deviates from any vaccination or vax schedule as "anti-" and "non-compliant." This includes people who don't take them for medical reasons, religious reasons, because thermosol-gives-you-brain-tumor reasons, even if you want to break up the bundling for your children so they don't get them all at once.

FWIW, my kids have had most but not all, for a couple different reasons. Our pediatrician is OK with it.

[ABNAK]

Interestingly, the medical-industrial complex labels anyone who deviates from any vaccination or vax schedule as "anti-" and "non-compliant." This includes people who don't take them for medical reasons, religious reasons, because thermosol-gives-you-brain-tumor reasons, even if you want to break up the bundling for your children so they don't get them all at once.

FWIW, my kids have had most but not all, for a couple different reasons. Our pediatrician is OK with it.

Oh I like that one! New spin on an old favorite!

[TomMcC]

It must hurt if you read my post and that was the message you came away with. You can lead a horse to water and all that.

Hurt? What are you talking about. I noticed you didn't actually deny the truth of what I said, but be that as it may, what I have gotten out of your various posts is the idea that you're pretty much on board with a heavy handed, most highly likely, non-constitutional approach to this whole lock down scheme, driven by various scientific "experts" that along with the MSM, spread about as much FUD as humanly possible. Are you actually in agreement with the savior Demo's like Whitmer, and those of like mind? You sound like an arrogant statist with all your "these people are stupid morons" talk concerning people that aren't 100% on board with the scientific party line....vaccinate or face doom and a pissed off bunch of tyrants. Just to be clear, I'm not an anti-vaxer, although I know a few. I've had plenty of vaccinations in my life beginning in childhood, through the military, and most recently taking the shingles vaccine. I take them or not depending on the info I can gather about their safety and effectiveness. I forgo the flu vaccines simply because I consider them not particularly effective. I will do the same for the Covid vaccine, if and when it shows up. I also believe a legitimate gov't has the authority to quarantine SICK people, not healthy people. After reading the laws in Calif. I have found no authority to quarantine healthy people, and now they have set a precedent for future abuses. God help us if more radical Dem's get in power, especially at the national level. Will they and their "scientists/doctors" declare "climate change" a real existential and humanity affecting crisis and really go to work saving us at any cost? I wouldn't put it past them for a minute.