Alan Dershowitz says the state has every right to ‘plunge a needle into your arm’ and

[TomMcC]

I think we disagree less than you think. I do not think the government should be able to tell someone they have to shut down their business, certainly not without compensating them fairly (though I am also fiscally conservative so I don’t like the idea of firing up the printers more than we have).

I also want things to open up as fast as possible and if the price we have to pay for that is simply wearing masks I’m okay with that trade off. I’d rather be inconvenienced by wearing a basic mask than have others lose their livelihood because they cannot go to work. Obviously I would prefer to not have to wear the mask but if it is actually effective, which it seems to be when an infected person is wearing one, then I think it’s worth it. However, I think it should be up to the business owners to determine if said masks should be required, not the governments. I also think that people should respect the rules of a business if they decide to require masks or not and they can choose to shop elsewhere if they disagree with the business’s choice either way.

For some reason it feels that we have to be on one side of the extremes with this situation. I think that both of those sides are wrong, we can take common sense measures that will drastically help prevent further spread so we should while also not making our economy grind to a halt causing many people to be destroyed financially.

I think I can agree with what you have written, sounds very reasonable and respectful of rights.

[tb-av]

At any rate I appreciate you "getting me" and if my wording was poor it's because it wasn't a long, thought out idea but more off the cuff.

100% ...

[Core781]

Key words there are "sorta wish" which means "don't actually support."

Also said "deny services", never said "deny liberty." Meaning I don't think you should be able to get welfare and not get the same shots we all got as kids.

Wish you'd read a little closer and not put words in my mouth that I never said.

Sure sounded pretty socialist to me: sounds like you're back tracking?

If you think any citizen should be forced to do anything to their bodies you are as un-American as it gets. Welfare recipients are citizens with the same constitutional rights, no one has the right to tell them what they can and cannot consume. IF you have a problem with that vote no on welfare, but don't cry when your retired and broke and can't afford food because your medical bills have cleaned out all your assets. If you would prefer not to pay taxes, I suppose you would stop using the roads and highways? I suppose you would stop using the internet which was tax funded? Nearly everything is subsidized, so that makes us all welfare recipients.. My forefathers would be appalled by the herd of ignorant fools sucking up the half truths demanding others do as they do in our trend based, socially engineered society today. I agree with you hatred towards taxation without representation, but lets not blame the most vulnerable people in our society for a system that we all benefit from.

Do you think that IF the vaccines were harmless they would have to lobby and bribe every legislator and judge in the nation to force our children to be vaccinated? And engage in a massive PR campaign? Bill Gates for example is heavily invested in vaccines, and has been pushing them for years: he's a slime ball.

Too many American's have lost the ability to think for themselves and want to be ruled as subjects in some sort of fascist police state. <-- Democrats. It's damn sad and very un-American.

[SteyrAUG]

Sure sounded pretty socialist to me: sounds like you're back tracking?

If you think any citizen should be forced to do anything to their bodies you are as un-American as it gets. Welfare recipients are citizens with the same constitutional rights, no one has the right to tell them what they can and cannot consume. IF you have a problem with that vote no on welfare, but don't cry when your retired and broke and can't afford food because your medical bills have cleaned out all your assets. If you would prefer not to pay taxes, I suppose you would stop using the roads and highways? I suppose you would stop using the internet which was tax funded? Nearly everything is subsidized, so that makes us all welfare recipients.. My forefathers would be appalled by the herd of ignorant fools sucking up the half truths demanding others do as they do in our trend based, socially engineered society today. I agree with you hatred towards taxation without representation, but lets not blame the most vulnerable people in our society for a system that we all benefit from.

Do you think that IF the vaccines were harmless they would have to lobby and bribe every legislator and judge in the nation to force our children to be vaccinated? And engage in a massive PR campaign? Bill Gates for example is heavily invested in vaccines, and has been pushing them for years: he's a slime ball.

Too many American's have lost the ability to think for themselves and want to be ruled as subjects in some sort of fascist police state. <-- Democrats. It's damn sad and very un-American.

I think I'm too bored to even address your pointless accusations and absurd ideas.

Yep, pretty sure if you really think after reading everything in this thread that I'm a back tracking socialist that it just isn't worth my time to try and explain anything to you.

Oh look, TCM is showing war movies.

Yep, it's definite. I simply don't care enough what you think.

[Core781]

I think I'm too bored to even address your pointless accusations and absurd ideas.

Yep, pretty sure if you really think after reading everything in this thread that I'm a back tracking socialist that it just isn't worth my time to try and explain anything to you.

Oh look, TCM is showing war movies.

Yep, it's definite. I simply don't care enough what you think.

That's cool. You did boldly throw it out there for the world to opine. I just had to spout my two cents, for a number of decades too many freedom minded Americans have watched in silence as the Left have spun wildly out of control. They actually believe socialism and communism has a chance of taking over our courts: it's not going to happen. We have sat silently long enough, it's time for constitutional freedoms to make a re-appearance in our pop culture. The hippies of the 1960's and 70's had the same idea and in many ways their ideology was more sustainable, yet a failed trend.

I have seen the web of decay socialism has spun in a number of failed nation states: I don't know of a single vocal socialist enjoying the freedoms in the US that would trade what they have now for the systemic decay of a socialist system. I am open to a hybrid system that's sustainable, which is in many ways what we have, yet in order for it to work we need strict adherence to Article VI within the US Constitution in addition to wise representation of tax dollars. We have to be careful to how much we tolerate, because ideology gains momentum when it has a hive minded herd to perpetuate it. We all share the same Human desires, but the hive mind does not account for the individual, and the two cannot coexist in harmony. We cannot have individual freedoms and play with the idea that the greater good must weave the fabric of the whole without creating a fascist police state. Nazi Germany, Stalin, Mao...what we have to lose is everything. Worse than our lives is the very humanity that drives our spirit, the thing that makes us human.

I'm not going to pigeon hole you, I don't know you. But you know where I stand on freedoms. Enjoy your programs.

[SeriousStudent]

And now that everyone is finished bitching at each other, this is a great place to close the thread.