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Thread: SF Worship

  1. #21
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    People are making this way over complicated. Mission drives the gear. As stated above, sometimes it's the same thing that the Ranger Recon SEAL beret uses, sometimes not.

  2. #22
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    I see guys kitted up in my classes all the time and it’s never bothered me. I’m more interested in how well they are shooting and how to make them better than what kind of cool guy gear they are wearing. I understand that it rubs some people the wrong way but I’m not one of them.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wake27 View Post
    He's a good shooter and I'm not entirely sure what set it off. But he's catching a lot of shit lately, especially by SOF vets and meme pages. His videos can be entertaining but some of it is lol worthy too. The last one I watched was about the MK18 and he was saying that when him and some other dude train SOF (what ****ing unit hires him anyways?), they shoot stock or close to stock guns like the ones they're holding because that's what the unit shoots. Then he proceeds to say that he's using a criterion barrel or something in his near stock gun. Literally replaced the heart of the weapon but states it isn't upgraded so people can't say the gun is why he's better. Another one was his offset RDS video where he was running something like an EOT on the top rail and an offset RDS. WTF.

    None of that even mentions the hate he and some others have gotten for having Android phones in Kagwerks cases like they're using an ATAK or something ridiculous. That shit talking is kinda warranted IMO.
    So here’s the thing:
    1. The barrel really wont matter unless your shooting for groups. Its close to stock.
    2. He designs stuff, so a lot of the “stupid” stuff he does is for research. He ran rds and offset rds for a few months while fine tuning the offset mount they just came out with. It was testing, not a setup he suggests people use.
    2a. Im assuming the android thing has to do with the plate carrier he’s developing. Can he not test his own stuff? Also, he trains guys using them, so wouldnt it make him a potentially better trainer to know how that affects things?
    ————
    It seems people get upset about what others do because they don’t understand it... and somehow it bothers them.
    Last edited by MegademiC; 05-23-20 at 08:04.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegademiC View Post
    So here’s the thing:
    1. The barrel really wont matter unless your shooting for groups. Its close to stock.
    2. He designs stuff, so a lot of the “stupid” stuff he does is for research. He ran rds and offset rds for a few months while fine tuning the offset mount they just came out with. It was testing, not a setup he suggests people use.
    2a. Im assuming the android thing has to do with the plate carrier he’s developing. Can he not test his own stuff? Also, he trains guys using them, so wouldnt it make him a potentially better trainer to know how that affects things?
    ————
    It seems people get upset about what others do because they don’t understand it... and somehow it bothers them.
    1. I still don't see why you wouldn't just use a DD barrel if the goal is staying close to an issued gun, not like they're hard to find.
    2. If you're testing something, why not test it in the manner its like to be used, like paired with an LPVO? Also, he made an entire video about how it could be a viable concept so it seems a little more than just testing the product itself.
    2a. Not sure why he would need to mess around with it for developing a PC. If it fits, that's about the extent I can imagine. Also not sure how it'd make him a better trainer. Its not like its something that he has to really learn the intricacies of when working with a long gun.

    I'm not saying there couldn't be valid reasons I don't understand but I am saying that the ones presented don't really convince me that some of it is anything other than LARPing and/or trying to be different just cuz.
    Sic semper tyrannis.

  5. #25
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    I can see a practical reason to attend a class or train "kitted up". Obviously at a class (or in a real-world disaster or riot situation) you'd have some kind of "bandolier" or other rig for carrying extra mags. In the case of folks who own body armor, if you plan to wear it on that "rainy day" when shit goes South then it would behoove you to train with it on to get the feel for it and what adjustments to your other gear need to be made to accommodate the carrier and plates.

    Last class I took I wore a vest with mag pouches and an empty magazine dump-bag on it, that's it. I spared myself wearing the Level IV BA setup I have; good thing too, as I was sore enough from the course, that shit would have made me a near-cripple!
    Last edited by ABNAK; 05-23-20 at 08:54.
    11C2P '83-'87
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wake27 View Post
    He's a good shooter and I'm not entirely sure what set it off. But he's catching a lot of shit lately, especially by SOF vets and meme pages. His videos can be entertaining but some of it is lol worthy too. The last one I watched was about the MK18 and he was saying that when him and some other dude train SOF (what ****ing unit hires him anyways?), they shoot stock or close to stock guns like the ones they're holding because that's what the unit shoots. Then he proceeds to say that he's using a criterion barrel or something in his near stock gun. Literally replaced the heart of the weapon but states it isn't upgraded so people can't say the gun is why he's better. Another one was his offset RDS video where he was running something like an EOT on the top rail and an offset RDS. WTF.

    None of that even mentions the hate he and some others have gotten for having Android phones in Kagwerks cases like they're using an ATAK or something ridiculous. That shit talking is kinda warranted IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by MegademiC View Post
    It seems people get upset about what others do because they don’t understand it... and somehow it bothers them.
    Training people and claiming to train SOF units is probably where that shit is coming from as far as the SOF vets and others are concerned. I don't know how tier one units go about selecting where they seek training, but it strikes me as odd that Lucas would be that choice. I could see a special forces dude seeking him out to possibly help him with shooting, but actual teams going to him seems far fetched. I could be completely wrong though.

    There are many that believe he's talking way outside of his lane in many subjects. I've always kinda felt like an instructor should have experience in at least one or more of these backgrounds, law enforcement, military, or competition shooting. Not that experience in any of those fields are an automatic qualification to be an instructor but I think it's a good start. I also think it's important for them to say who they've trained with as far as other known instructors are concerned. Lucas has no LE, or military experience, and in competition shooting he's best known for getting a DQ for refusing to drag a dummy through one of the stages. I also don't think he's real big on taking courses from other instructors. I know one has invited him several times on IG to come train with him and Lucas says no.

    He is definitely a good shooter and spends a lot of time behind the gun, but a near perfect run in a Youtube and Instagram video after a second, third, or fourth take isn't the same thing as doing it when other people are watching in a training or competition scenario, and that's one of the things he takes flak for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Bullseye View Post
    Take whatever AR you have, put Ultradyne irons on it (easily move from 0 to 400 yards), and adjustable white light for no light, and maybe a visible laser for low light. Or you can scrap you rifle, spend thousands and thousands of dollars on short barrels, Aimpoints, night vision and IR lasers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    Guys with LPVOs, lasers, and night vision have been killing the dogs**t out of dudes with just iron sights at night with great regularity for about 25 years now.

  7. #27
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    Now it sounds like I'm gossiping, but he showed up to the SF 3 Gun memorial match with a bunch of clout and got dead last. Maxed out the times on several stages because he couldn't lift a TCCC dummy or complete any of the physical evolutions. Also flagged his squad in another shooting match and got instantly dq'ed.

    He's also rubbed a few guys that I've met the wrong way in terms of stealing gear ideas and a few others that I've come to learn are no-go's in the gun community. Guys that have actually undertaken selections and gotten to those units that take time and sacrifice to become proficient.
    Last edited by RMike89; 05-23-20 at 10:14.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomMcC View Post
    I've seen a couple of this Lucas Botkin's vids but never much paid attention to the name, just another guy with something to say on the tube. Been listening to Rob Leatham vids lately. Does this Lucas fellow have a bad rep or something?
    Building on another post, he is well-known for speeding up his videos as well. Botkin also was invited, I'll say it again...invited, to a 3-gun competition on Ft. Bragg and showed up in plates and a helmet. He was effectively DQ'd from the match after refusing to participate in the PT-like activities prior to a few stages, but allowed to continue. This match is invite only and the hosts are former SF.

    I won't go into his family beyond saying they are very anti-gay, are leaders of the "quiverfull" and religiously based patriarchy movement, and are seemingly followed by sexual misconduct claims in their cult known as the Botkin Conservatory.

    I really wish Garand Thumb would formally distance himself from Botkin but they seem to be buddies. Botkin's followers are like swarms of extremely loyal locusts.
    Last edited by Vandal; 05-23-20 at 10:32.
    Reads a lot, posts little.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wake27 View Post
    Part of me wonders if this is a dig at Lucas since everyone is jumping on that right now.

    Anyone taking him serious is a clownfish.
    Stick


    Board policy mandates I state that I shoot for BCM. I have also done work for 200 or so manufacturers within the firearm community. I am prior service, a full time LEO, firearm instructor, armorer, TL, martial arts instructor, and all around good guy.

    I also shoot and write for various publications. Let me know if you know cool secrets or have toys worthy of an article...


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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMike89 View Post
    Now it sounds like I'm gossiping, but he showed up to the SF 3 Gun memorial match with a bunch of clout and got dead last. Maxed out the times on several stages because he couldn't lift a TCCC dummy or complete any of the physical evolutions. Also flagged his squad in another shooting match and got instantly dq'ed.

    He's also rubbed a few guys that I've met the wrong way in terms of stealing gear ideas and a few others that I've come to learn are no-go's in the gun community. Guys that have actually undertaken selections and gotten to those units that take time and sacrifice to become proficient.
    Somewhat related, somewhat not, I have a bigger gripe with guys who show up out of shape who cannot run from here to there without looking like they're going to keel over with a heart attack. I'm not talking about having to be ripped or just having come from BUDS or the Q, I am talking about an essential base level fitness. When I see them like that and then kitted with a grand or more worth of gear, then I start raising my eyebrows.

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