Pistol caliber carbines are winning my soul - and they should win yours too

[MadAngler1]

I hate Glock mags in anything other than a Glock. Let each SMG/PCC design use its proprietary mag purpose.

+1. Agree 1000%

[MadAngler1]

I used to be strictly an AR and Glock guy but there’s so much versatility out there in other platforms. (Plus some are just nostalgic)

Currently pending a few stamps and one final Aimpoint micro to finish the PCC lineup but I’ve got a few B&Ts, a PS90, and others. The goal with these weapons was to be able to bring more firepower with me than just a handgun but still in a bag small enough not to raise eyebrows. (Except the HK SP5. That’s just neat.)

It’s pretty satisfying being able to fit 75 rounds of 9mm and an NV capable carbine into something smaller than a laptop bag. The expense needed to buy a gun is way easier to justify when you are able to bring it with you wherever you go rather than a bunch of ARs that live in the safe 24/7.

I know this is an AR centric site, but I’m willing to bet most of us carry handguns on a day to day basis and almost all of us keep a gun near the bed for uh-ohs.

Pistol calibers generally don’t perform well against armor (save for the 5.7 if you wanna spend $10, *each* for SS190) but the PCC’s job isn’t to replace an AR - it’s to supplement a handgun. The B&T APC9k for example is only slightly bigger than a G34. A bit too big to actually conceal on your body (although ridiculous, it’s possible) but even a tiny, tiny bag will conceal it well. The level of accuracy and capability 3 points of contact and a T1 have over a handgun (even with an RMR) is insane. Imagine 100% faster split times while being able to hit targets half as big. The PS90 is so ergonomic it can be fired one handed, and I’m sure once the stamp gets back it will only be even more balanced with the shorter barrel.

I guess my point is that lately I’ve found myself shifting away from the up armored days of GWOT into more of a grey man. Unfortunately, the AR platform doesn’t really lend itself to this kind of living. Even a 10.5” AR with a LAW folder (which cannot be fired folded and is quite loud) is still pretty big.

Anyone else?

I think PCCs are another great set of tools in the toolbox. If one does not have the luxury of a suppressed 10-11.5” AR or use of an outdoor range/indoor range that handles rifle calibers, a PCC is a great way to go. If you don’t or can’t run a can, a PCC is probably a better tool to shoot inside your home than an AR in 5.56 NATO unless you’re wearing ear pro. I realize 5.56 NATO is superior, but a 9 mm AR is much less intimidating to shoot for a newbie or novice shooter. Just ask my wife; she won’t touch my bigger guns unless they’re wearing a can.

[WickedWillis]

Guys in the know, I have questions.

I think the CZ Scorpion is my baseline. Is the B&T GHM9 really that much better than the SCorpion? Or should I just save for the APC9 at that point?

[hotrodder636]

I cannot speak for the CZ but I can say my B&Ts are absolute top notch quality and craftsmanship. Makes my SP5K seem/feel cheap. It also shoots very well and has a very tame recoil impulse. Factor with a TRI-lug mount for your favorite can. I would get another B&T in a heartbeat over the CZ. All that said, if you are super tight on funds, pick the tool you can afford...but if you CAN afford the B&T, do it.

Guys in the know, I have questions.

I think the CZ Scorpion is my baseline. Is the B&T GHM9 really that much better than the SCorpion? Or should I just save for the APC9 at that point?

[WickedWillis]

I cannot speak for the CZ but I can say my B&Ts are absolute top notch quality and craftsmanship. Makes my SP5K seem/feel cheap. It also shoots very well and has a very tame recoil impulse. Factor with a TRI-lug mount for your favorite can. I would get another B&T in a heartbeat over the CZ. All that said, if you are super tight on funds, pick the tool you can afford...but if you CAN afford the B&T, do it.

I can afford the scorpion outright right now. After handling the apc9k last week tough, it just felt incredibly solid. The scorpion was lighter, but I think that was the only thing over the b&t it had going for it. I really wish they had the GHM9 there so I could have handled that as well, but the apc9 felt awesome.

I would feel like if I got the scorpion, I would probably wish I would have saved bit longer for the b&t. I'm just curious if there is that much of a difference between the ghm9 and the apc9. If you get the ghm9 with the tailhook, the damn thing is like $200 less than the apc9 with a brace on it.

[hotrodder636]

I cannot speak to the GHM9 as I have the KH9 and APC9Pro. From what I can tell the GHM9 appears to have the same/similar upper as the KH9 but with an APC9 lower. The APC has a different style recoil/buffer supposedly making them ‘softer’ shooting.

I can afford the scorpion outright right now. After handling the apc9k last week tough, it just felt incredibly solid. The scorpion was lighter, but I think that was the only thing over the b&t it had going for it. I really wish they had the GHM9 there so I could have handled that as well, but the apc9 felt awesome.

I would feel like if I got the scorpion, I would probably wish I would have saved bit longer for the b&t. I'm just curious if there is that much of a difference between the ghm9 and the apc9. If you get the ghm9 with the tailhook, the damn thing is like $200 less than the apc9 with a brace on it.

[JoshNC]

I can afford the scorpion outright right now. After handling the apc9k last week tough, it just felt incredibly solid. The scorpion was lighter, but I think that was the only thing over the b&t it had going for it. I really wish they had the GHM9 there so I could have handled that as well, but the apc9 felt awesome.

I would feel like if I got the scorpion, I would probably wish I would have saved bit longer for the b&t. I'm just curious if there is that much of a difference between the ghm9 and the apc9. If you get the ghm9 with the tailhook, the damn thing is like $200 less than the apc9 with a brace on it.

The ghm9 is just as reliable as the APC9.

[PracticalRifleman]

I can afford the scorpion outright right now. After handling the apc9k last week tough, it just felt incredibly solid. The scorpion was lighter, but I think that was the only thing over the b&t it had going for it. I really wish they had the GHM9 there so I could have handled that as well, but the apc9 felt awesome.

I would feel like if I got the scorpion, I would probably wish I would have saved bit longer for the b&t. I'm just curious if there is that much of a difference between the ghm9 and the apc9. If you get the ghm9 with the tailhook, the damn thing is like $200 less than the apc9 with a brace on it.

Personally, I went with a Scorpion due to the aftermarket support including Magpul magazines and the availability of nearly any accessory/part you may ever need.


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[gunnerblue]

The ghm9 is just as reliable as the APC9.

Have you shot both? I'm guessing that the APC's hydraulic bolt setup is very helpful on full auto, but maybe not as noticeable on semi auto as opposed to the GHM9?

I am also trying to decide between the two

[gunnerblue]

Personally, I went with a Scorpion due to the aftermarket support including Magpul magazines and the availability of nearly any accessory/part you may ever need.


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Did you have an issue with either the double stack B&T mags or Glock mags (for the PRO lowers)?