Pistol caliber carbines are winning my soul - and they should win yours too

[jpmuscle]

That time of year, eh???

The Euro logic path, which always returns to it's origins before angrily turning away, only to return again.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

You remind of that Quasimodo guy and his unrequited love for Esmeralda, but it’s Euro in this case.


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[MountainRaven]

You’re worried about a gang attack and use a Romeo 5?

Interesting.

You missed the parts where he's using 9mm ball in a Kel-Tec.

[Todd.K]

300blk is expensive. I'm finding almost a dollar a round.

I get that anything with a stock has an advantage over a pistol, and a PCC can be smaller than any AR. But who cares about the cost of any AR caliber? I can easily do 90 to 100 percent of my training with a 556 upper. I counter that many PCCs will actually require additional training due to different controls.

Unless you just traded your last 6920 for a keltec... then you are more than welcome to head over to TOS and argue about what is the best Chinese red dot to put on it...

[Eurodriver]

Todd, the controls on the B&T APC9s are *almost* identical to an AR. They even use an AR like trigger.

I agree I would not want to carry an MP5 type variant without a LRBHO and funky controls or a weird “rock the mag in” seating method.

You missed the parts where he's using 9mm ball in a Kel-Tec.

I think this may be why PCCs get a bad rap.

Because usually the folks using PCCs buy the cheapest shit they can find, and guys who are concerned about quality guns go “hah. What a piece of junk.”

[1168]

One thing I really like about 9mm vs. 5.56 in training is the immediate feedback on target. You can see the 9mm hits as they are created, .22 holes aren't as visible.

Especially if flat nosed bullets are used. I’ve also noticed that at night, if a sufficiently bright light is used, bullets have kind of a ghetto tracer effect. Its pretty cool.

[ABNAK]

Okay, to ask a question in the same vein as this thread: what ammo for a PCC? Let's assume 100m max expectation of range capability. So from 0-100m are we going with heavy 147gr, mid-weight 124's, or flyweight 115gr fodder? +P or standard pressure? JHP or FMJ?

I would think a hot 115gr load would fly a little "flatter" than the others, but lack the penetration of the heavier rounds.

[PracticalRifleman]

Okay, to ask a question in the same vein as this thread: what ammo for a PCC? Let's assume 100m max expectation of range capability. So from 0-100m are we going with heavy 147gr, mid-weight 124's, or flyweight 115gr fodder? +P or standard pressure? JHP or FMJ?

I would think a hot 115gr load would fly a little "flatter" than the others, but lack the penetration of the heavier rounds.

Really, depends on the barrel length. Are you shooting a micro with a 4-5” barrel? Or is it a 16” “rifle” PCC?

Ammunition that extends the range may potentially reduce short range performance and vice versa. Selection should be an ammunition which stays inside your intended velocity window at ranges you intend to use it. It seems, for practical performance, the short barrels and heavy pistol ammunition is where one should look such as 147 gr Speer Gold Dots.


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[RHINOWSO]

Really, depends on the barrel length. Are you shooting a micro with a 4-5” barrel? Or is it a 16” “rifle” PCC?

With 9MM (depending on the loading) you really stop gaining tangible velocity after 5-10".

With 124-147gr duty loads, it's more like 5-7" and you are getting what you are gonna get and longer barrels yield minimal additional velocity.

[ST911]

With 9MM (depending on the loading) you really stop gaining tangible velocity after 5-10".

With 124-147gr duty loads, it's more like 5-7" and you are getting what you are gonna get and longer barrels yield minimal additional velocity.

This. If you're running a PCC/SMG, chrono your load and make no assumptions. I'd also chrono when changing lots.

As an example, Fed 147 HST and Speer 147 G2 are ~1000 fps in most 16" barrels, the same as from a G19-ish.

[ABNAK]

This. If you're running a PCC/SMG, chrono your load and make no assumptions. I'd also chrono when changing lots.

As an example, Fed 147 HST and Speer 147 G2 are ~1000 fps in most 16" barrels, the same as from a G19-ish.

Yeah, that's why I was thinking a little lighter than 147gr. According to BallisticsByTheInch a 16" barrel will yield 150-200fps velocity gain with 115gr and 124gr ammo as compared to a 4" handgun barrel. The 147gr not so much like you said.