Pistol caliber carbines are winning my soul - and they should win yours too

[yoni]

So basically a heavy handgun! What does a Uzi pistol or the chicken shooter skorpion offer over a G17?

If you are asking what a non SBR and or a non braced weapon has to offer over a G17?

They are worse than the G17.

If you are asking what a SBR and or braced semi auto pcc offers over a G17 a lot.

1. Faster more accurate shots

2. Psychological effect in peoples minds it is a "bigger" thus more serious weapon.

[yoni]

Jellybean

I don't disagree with a lot of what you said.

A PCC to me must be small, 14 inches plus or minus. If you get longer than that up to 20 inches or so then go with a rifle.

I just drove across country. We had 2 pistols in the SUV and a Tavor in the car. I went with a rifle rather than a small PCC, because I wanted to something with more power than the PCC I could have brought. Also I wanted less potential legal issues with LE that might not understand the whole braced pistol or SBR thing.

[turnburglar]

If you don't grasp why a PCC is better than a G17, you simply haven't shot one.

I can shoot my CZ as quickly and as accurately at close range as a 10.5" AR. Would I prefer the ballistic superiority of the AR for self defense? Absolutely. Why do I own a PCC? For shooting PCC matches. They are a TON of fun. And with that said at PCC matches the most common guns that have stoppages have one of two things in common:

1. Reloaded Ammunition

2. Glock mags

Sure, it may sound 'handy' to have a PCC that takes the same mags as your pistol; but it really isn't. You will probably not put that obnoxiously long 33rnd stick in your G19. I have tired and its kinda dumb. At the same point; why would you want a 15rnd mag for a PCC? Glock mags just are not as reliable once you get into the 30+ round count. There is a reason that all the PROVEN subguns have curved magazines.

[WickedWillis]

I used to be strictly an AR and Glock guy but there’s so much versatility out there in other platforms. (Plus some are just nostalgic)

Currently pending a few stamps and one final Aimpoint micro to finish the PCC lineup but I’ve got a few B&Ts, a PS90, and others. The goal with these weapons was to be able to bring more firepower with me than just a handgun but still in a bag small enough not to raise eyebrows. (Except the HK SP5. That’s just neat.)

It’s pretty satisfying being able to fit 75 rounds of 9mm and an NV capable carbine into something smaller than a laptop bag. The expense needed to buy a gun is way easier to justify when you are able to bring it with you wherever you go rather than a bunch of ARs that live in the safe 24/7.

I know this is an AR centric site, but I’m willing to bet most of us carry handguns on a day to day basis and almost all of us keep a gun near the bed for uh-ohs.

Pistol calibers generally don’t perform well against armor (save for the 5.7 if you wanna spend $10, *each* for SS190) but the PCC’s job isn’t to replace an AR - it’s to supplement a handgun. The B&T APC9k for example is only slightly bigger than a G34. A bit too big to actually conceal on your body (although ridiculous, it’s possible) but even a tiny, tiny bag will conceal it well. The level of accuracy and capability 3 points of contact and a T1 have over a handgun (even with an RMR) is insane. Imagine 100% faster split times while being able to hit targets half as big. The PS90 is so ergonomic it can be fired one handed, and I’m sure once the stamp gets back it will only be even more balanced with the shorter barrel.

I guess my point is that lately I’ve found myself shifting away from the up armored days of GWOT into more of a grey man. Unfortunately, the AR platform doesn’t really lend itself to this kind of living. Even a 10.5” AR with a LAW folder (which cannot be fired folded and is quite loud) is still pretty big.

Anyone else?

Euro, how exactly are you running your B&T currently?

[Arik]

I still think a backpack with an SBR/brace rifle caliber pistol (depending on your state laws) is the way to go IF the goal is to bring something more than just a ccw. Even in 556 shorter than 10in. Not exactly Somalia here. And while I don't have an extensive knowledge in backpacks I know I can put my AK47 SBR with a folding stock at 19 inches into a regular schoolbag. Infact the one I used in school. Fits just fine, the front compartment holds a minimalist chest rig with 4 mags. Weight is a different story but that is based on the firearm.

[vandal5]

I still think a backpack with an SBR/brace rifle caliber pistol (depending on your state laws) is the way to go IF the goal is to bring something more than just a ccw. Even in 556 shorter than 10in. Not exactly Somalia here. And while I don't have an extensive knowledge in backpacks I know I can put my AK47 SBR with a folding stock at 19 inches into a regular schoolbag. Infact the one I used in school. Fits just fine, the front compartment holds a minimalist chest rig with 4 mags. Weight is a different story but that is based on the firearm.

So it still probably weights less than what we had to carry around in high school?

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[Ron3]

So basically a heavy handgun! What does a Uzi pistol or the chicken shooter skorpion offer over a G17?

For me the Skorpion and about 8 magazines is lighter. The mags are light and compact and hold 20 rds.

The rate of fire even for semi auto is high and it sounds like a 450 rpm auto. That rate of fire and its appearance has a way of scattering a crowd to break contact.

For more deliberate action the trigger is nice and the pistol is accurate. Getting shot with a single .32 round is likely going to take the confidence right out of a person acting as part of a mob. (The better .32 ammo I have chronoed from 1050-1150 fps from my gun)

It's also been perfectly reliable.

If I had an RDS equipped pistol and was good with it I might consider that. Maybe I'll get another CZ 9mm someday. Kinda late now, its "run what ya brung".

[Arik]

For me the Skorpion and about 8 magazines is lighter. The mags are light and compact and hold 20 rds.

The rate of fire even for semi auto is high and it sounds like a 450 rpm auto. That rate of fire and its appearance has a way of scattering a crowd to break contact.

For more deliberate action the trigger is nice and the pistol is accurate. Getting shot with a single .32 round is likely going to take the confidence right out of a person acting as part of a mob. (The better .32 ammo I have chronoed from 1050-1150 fps from my gun)

It's also been perfectly reliable.

If I had an RDS equipped pistol and was good with it I might consider that. Maybe I'll get another CZ 9mm someday. Kinda late now, its "run what ya brung".

Semi auto rate of fire is as fast as you can pull the trigger.

G19X mags 19 rounds light and compact

I know a bunch of people who actually were issued and used the old skorpion in actual combat. The nickname for it was "chicken shooter" because that's about the only thing it killed. Everyone dumped it for something else the first chance. It was deadly if one pumped a mag's worth of ammo into someone

[Arik]

So it still probably weights less than what we had to carry around in high school?

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It's nowhere near light but I remember those books being stupid heavy. Polymer mags save SOME weight

[Clint]

Which setups have you observed running most reliably?

For shooting PCC matches. They are a TON of fun. And with that said at PCC matches the most common guns that have stoppages have one of two things in common:

1. Reloaded Ammunition

2. Glock mags

Sure, it may sound 'handy' to have a PCC that takes the same mags as your pistol; but it really isn't. You will probably not put that obnoxiously long 33rnd stick in your G19. I have tired and its kinda dumb. At the same point; why would you want a 15rnd mag for a PCC? Glock mags just are not as reliable once you get into the 30+ round count.

There is a reason that all the PROVEN subguns have curved magazines.