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Thread: Razor Gen 3...

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by overlookh View Post
    I saw the last gen III 1-10x24.

    Do you think that in few weeks we have to expect the complete renew of the razor series?
    I am interested to buy the gen II 4-27x56.
    Should I expect a while?

    Bye
    Nothing in the immediate future. If you look at the Gen II's, it was the same thing. LPVO first, then a while later the high mag variants came.

    LPVO's and high mag scopes are completely 100% different beasts. To make them at that high of a level requires two completely different development efforts and timelines, so we focus all our efforts on them separately.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by arken View Post
    Sorry if I hijack the thread. How did they make the E lighter while retaining all the features/capabilities/ruggedness? Why didn't they do that from the start? Thanks.
    Mostly switching of materials in certain spots from heavier, but easier to machine, brass to lighter aluminum. Remains just as strong - if not stronger (Less inertia to hit the ground and eff stuff up) but lighter.

    This wasn't done immediately from the start because back in 2012 when the Gen II 1-6x Razor came out we couldn't achieve consistent and precise machining on those parts out of aluminum like we can now.

  3. #13
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    We’ve had the Razor AMG optics at work, and many are unhappy with them. Theyre heavy and eat batteries like crazy.. I change batteries, do a quarterly in service, then do t touch the optics (on/off switch) for 3 months, get to my next quartet I service, batteries are dead... these are the large lithium ion batteries too..

    I just purchased an AR pistol and picked up the Vortex Razor reticle? Which is super slim and promises to eat less batteries. We will see. Vortex is a local company, to us, and we have even done training at their HQ (nice state of the art facility), but those damn big AMG optics...ugh.

    D9A53AE9-AB5C-409D-9ED6-519296686504.jpeg
    Last edited by Trihonda; 06-05-20 at 10:47.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trihonda View Post
    We’ve had the Razor AMG optics at work, and many are unhappy with them. Theyre heavy and eat batteries like crazy.. I change batteries, do a quarterly in service, then do t touch the optics (on/off switch) for 3 months, get to my next quartet I service, batteries are dead... these are the large lithium ion batteries too..

    I just purchased an AR pistol and picked up the Vortex Razor reticle? Which is super slim and promises to eat less batteries. We will see. Vortex is a local company, to us, and we have even done training at their HQ (nice state of the art facility), but those damn big AMG optics...ugh.

    D9A53AE9-AB5C-409D-9ED6-519296686504.jpeg
    What did you guys switch from when you went to AMG's? (Which, by the way, "AMG" is the name of a special division of multiple products in our line - it's not one specific product - you must be talking about the UH-1? Edit - just saw the picture load - yep! It's a UH-1) They're actually no heavier than the comparable "Other" holographic sights out there on the market. Within a few tenths of an ounce as a matter of fact.

    The battery eating thing sounds odd. Have you talked to us about it? 3 months should be no big deal. Our showroom models are on all the time and people rarely remember to turn them off and they don't even seem to eat batteries that quick. Even if they do - there's a battery life indicator built into the sight that blinks the reticle once it's starting to get low when you first turn it on.

    As for the new sight - The Razor red dot is totally different and will have better battery life. All red dots will have better battery life than a holographic sight because they power a highly efficient LED instead of the laser which is necessary for a holographic system. The UH-1 has more than double the amount of battery life "Other" holographic sights had for about two decades and which were used in Mil/LE applications all along.

    If you have any questions, definitely give us a call!

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by VortexOptics View Post
    What did you guys switch from when you went to AMG's? (Which, by the way, "AMG" is the name of a special division of multiple products in our line - it's not one specific product - you must be talking about the UH-1? Edit - just saw the picture load - yep! It's a UH-1) They're actually no heavier than the comparable "Other" holographic sights out there on the market. Within a few tenths of an ounce as a matter of fact.

    The battery eating thing sounds odd. Have you talked to us about it? 3 months should be no big deal. Our showroom models are on all the time and people rarely remember to turn them off and they don't even seem to eat batteries that quick. Even if they do - there's a battery life indicator built into the sight that blinks the reticle once it's starting to get low when you first turn it on.

    As for the new sight - The Razor red dot is totally different and will have better battery life. All red dots will have better battery life than a holographic sight because they power a highly efficient LED instead of the laser which is necessary for a holographic system. The UH-1 has more than double the amount of battery life "Other" holographic sights had for about two decades and which were used in Mil/LE applications all along.

    If you have any questions, definitely give us a call!
    Hey, great to hear from Vortex here. Please don't take my comments as official department stance. It's just a number of us have seen weird battery issues. Not sure why, but I don't leave my optics on EVER, and really only turn them on to shoot inservice. There was some recommendation at first that we turn them on at the start of each shift, then off again at the end, but most never do that. Is having them 100% off somehow draining the batt more? Because each inservice I need new batteries, without ANY use. I'm not alone. We were initially told you could really leave the unit on and it would last 50,000 hours... ha, I figured that was our training staff blowing smoke, but we at least expected them to last longer than 3 months (being off).

    As for the previous optics, I really don't know what it was. I wasn't a huge AR freak, really. Despite owning a couple, I just use what they give us at work, rifles, optics, furniture, etc.. I'm not quick to pull out my AR on calls, but I'm very competent with my handgun, and the rifles aren't a concept I started out with. Now that I think about it, from what I can recall, we had iron sights for the most part, with the occasional car outfitted with a scoped rifle. So your UH1's probably arent heavier than the norm, but I think my norm before was the irons sights, so they felt heavier...

    In a different post, I was raving about your state of the art facilities (we came out and did training there a bit ago). Very nice, hope we get to come back out.

    I really love my Vortex red dot! It's amazing on my new BCM MCMR 11.5.

    Cheers!

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trihonda View Post
    Hey, great to hear from Vortex here. Please don't take my comments as official department stance. It's just a number of us have seen weird battery issues. Not sure why, but I don't leave my optics on EVER, and really only turn them on to shoot inservice. There was some recommendation at first that we turn them on at the start of each shift, then off again at the end, but most never do that. Is having them 100% off somehow draining the batt more? Because each inservice I need new batteries, without ANY use. I'm not alone. We were initially told you could really leave the unit on and it would last 50,000 hours... ha, I figured that was our training staff blowing smoke, but we at least expected them to last longer than 3 months (being off).

    As for the previous optics, I really don't know what it was. I wasn't a huge AR freak, really. Despite owning a couple, I just use what they give us at work, rifles, optics, furniture, etc.. I'm not quick to pull out my AR on calls, but I'm very competent with my handgun, and the rifles aren't a concept I started out with. Now that I think about it, from what I can recall, we had iron sights for the most part, with the occasional car outfitted with a scoped rifle. So your UH1's probably arent heavier than the norm, but I think my norm before was the irons sights, so they felt heavier...

    In a different post, I was raving about your state of the art facilities (we came out and did training there a bit ago). Very nice, hope we get to come back out.

    I really love my Vortex red dot! It's amazing on my new BCM MCMR 11.5.

    Cheers!
    "There was some recommendation at first that we turn them on at the start of each shift, then off again at the end, but most never do that."

    Adrian here... Your rifle and optic is a piece of mission critical equipment. Do people do a press check on their pistol at the beginning of every shift? Check squad lights? Check body camera? Check the oil on your squad? (ok yeah none of us do that) but you MUST check your firearms guys.... leaving it sit for three months without checking it... I don't know how else to say it, but that's not a good idea. The optic selection is irrelevant, it needs to be checked at the beginning of every shift on the street.

    If you work inside - I get it. You're not going to check it everyday. Then try to check it weekly, or at LEAST once a month. Set a reminder on your calendar or phone. You should probably be adding some lube sometime within those three months too.

    Most electronics draw current when off. I'm not sure if the AMGs do, I'm not an engineer. I can look into it. It could also be batteries. What batteries are you using? I've seen agencies buy low-bid CR123s to save a few bucks which crap out really fast.

    My recommendation for patrol guys running the UH-1 (or actually Razor 1-6s or anything else that doesn't have a battery life measured in years):
    Check it at the beginning of your shift, then shut it off. You could leave it on all shift if you really want, but you'll eat through a battery in less than a month. Even if you have an optic that runs 50,000 hours, you still need to check it at the beginning of your shift to make sure it works. I'd check my weapon light too, ensure my mag is inserted, chamber is empty and the rifle is good to go. That's a basic pre-shift inspection that takes ten seconds.

    If you keep the optic shut off like I recommend for the UH-1 on patrol, then just make turning on your optic part of your deployment proceedure. You need to check the brightness of your optic anyways, even if it's already on, right? Lighting conditions change throughout a shift. So deploy the rifle, push pull on your mag, chamber a round, presscheck, tap the FA, adjust your stock, adjust your optic, sling up and you're good to go. Every time you use the rifle, it takes five seconds and you should be doing it the same way every single time.

    That's my advice. If you want to chat with me more about it you can always email me aalan@vortexoptics.com - but this is an operator issue, and you guys need to train your officers to do it right - the optic you run is really irrelevant to the process.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggammell View Post
    I can’t say specifically but generally it was overbuilt one the first place. Like a lot. Scale some of that back a little while still maintaining a great durability standard and you get the -E.
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxTheCat View Post
    I believe it was using aluminum in the turret housing construction vs brass on the original, which saved ~4oz.
    Quote Originally Posted by VortexOptics View Post
    Mostly switching of materials in certain spots from heavier, but easier to machine, brass to lighter aluminum. Remains just as strong - if not stronger (Less inertia to hit the ground and eff stuff up) but lighter.

    This wasn't done immediately from the start because back in 2012 when the Gen II 1-6x Razor came out we couldn't achieve consistent and precise machining on those parts out of aluminum like we can now.
    Thank you guys for the responses.

    PS: It's great to have a Vortex rep on here!

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dakotalawdog View Post
    "There was some recommendation at first that we turn them on at the start of each shift, then off again at the end, but most never do that."

    Adrian here... Your rifle and optic is a piece of mission critical equipment. Do people do a press check on their pistol at the beginning of every shift? Check squad lights? Check body camera? Check the oil on your squad? (ok yeah none of us do that) but you MUST check your firearms guys.... leaving it sit for three months without checking it... I don't know how else to say it, but that's not a good idea. The optic selection is irrelevant, it needs to be checked at the beginning of every shift on the street.

    If you work inside - I get it. You're not going to check it everyday. Then try to check it weekly, or at LEAST once a month. Set a reminder on your calendar or phone. You should probably be adding some lube sometime within those three months too.

    Most electronics draw current when off. I'm not sure if the AMGs do, I'm not an engineer. I can look into it. It could also be batteries. What batteries are you using? I've seen agencies buy low-bid CR123s to save a few bucks which crap out really fast.

    My recommendation for patrol guys running the UH-1 (or actually Razor 1-6s or anything else that doesn't have a battery life measured in years):
    Check it at the beginning of your shift, then shut it off. You could leave it on all shift if you really want, but you'll eat through a battery in less than a month. Even if you have an optic that runs 50,000 hours, you still need to check it at the beginning of your shift to make sure it works. I'd check my weapon light too, ensure my mag is inserted, chamber is empty and the rifle is good to go. That's a basic pre-shift inspection that takes ten seconds.

    If you keep the optic shut off like I recommend for the UH-1 on patrol, then just make turning on your optic part of your deployment proceedure. You need to check the brightness of your optic anyways, even if it's already on, right? Lighting conditions change throughout a shift. So deploy the rifle, push pull on your mag, chamber a round, presscheck, tap the FA, adjust your stock, adjust your optic, sling up and you're good to go. Every time you use the rifle, it takes five seconds and you should be doing it the same way every single time.

    That's my advice. If you want to chat with me more about it you can always email me aalan@vortexoptics.com - but this is an operator issue, and you guys need to train your officers to do it right - the optic you run is really irrelevant to the process.
    To add some context to Adrian's message here - the UH-1 and any other optic on the market that utilizes digital button controls or "Auto" controls for turning on/off or adjusting brightness will draw from the battery even when turned off. The sight needs to be constantly sensing itself so it knows when you press a button to turn it on. The only time this isn't the case is with optics with a rotary dial switch which is a "Dumb" switch and is fully "Off" when "Off" and then on when flicked to the on position.

    All this said, even a stored battery which is not having any current drawn at all can still wear down over time. Temperature and the natural chemistry of batteries can cause them to die more quickly (Or more slowly - see "Storing batteries in the fridge") - Cheap-o batteries are especially vulnerable.

    Lastly - the UH-1 is not a "50,000 hour battery life" sight. That would be a red dot using a highly efficient LED for its illumination source. The UH-1 is a holographic sight using a laser for it's illumination source. Lasers are inherently much more "Hungry" and will eat through batteries more quickly. The rated battery life for the UH-1 is 1,500-1,800 hours on the middle setting (Can depend based on batteries, temperature, etc). This is actually highly efficient for a laser.

  9. #19
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    Thank you to dakotalawdog and VortexOptics for participating in this thread and providing excellent information to our community.
    2012 National Zumba Endurance Champion
    الدهون القاع الفتيات لك جعل العالم هزاز جولة الذهاب

  10. #20
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    Shot a rifle class on Saturday with my Gen III. I had some issues when I first got it because the diopter adjustment was far more sensitive to my eye, but I think I got it dialed in and it performed very well. I’m super happy with it. Thanks to the vortex rep on here for helping me with it.


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    Sic semper tyrannis.

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