Better duty rifles in current production?

[Sid Post]

And it runs though 1/7 (Sionics, Colt, etc) just fine. There is no reason whatsoever for 1/9 (Windham, Bushy, etc) twist barrels on guns meant to hammer two legged targets.

If USA D.O.D. didn't adopt 1x7 barrels for tracers, would we even be having this discussion?

I'm not arguing over-stabilization being good or bad, just that it isn't really needed today. For anyone not running speciality bullets typically meant for the target range, this is really a moot argument.

Things are starting to change a little with ~77gr loads entering the mainstream but, for most people that isn't really a factor either. If you are running an SBR or shooting a match at extreme ranges, what someone uses on bad guys, pests, etc. isn't really relevant.

[kirkland]

I'd sure like to get my hands on one of those Guissele's

[LMT/556]

If USA D.O.D. didn't adopt 1x7 barrels for tracers, would we even be having this discussion?

I'm not arguing over-stabilization being good or bad, just that it isn't really needed today. For anyone not running speciality bullets typically meant for the target range, this is really a moot argument.

Things are starting to change a little with ~77gr loads entering the mainstream but, for most people that isn't really a factor either. If you are running an SBR or shooting a match at extreme ranges, what someone uses on bad guys, pests, etc. isn't really relevant.

Ok so 1/7.7 or 1/8. 1/9 is marginal for 69 grain and definitely too slow for 77, so really the practical modern twist rate is between 1/7 to 1/8 unless you are running 55 and lighter.

[Trihonda]

Didn’t read the entire thread.. but I’m a fan of BCM. At work, we had full colt ARs, but upgraded to BCM uppers within the last few years. The new uppers have better rail systems for mounting tac lights and optics. We stuck with a WI company for our optics, Vortex. I’ve been happy with them for duty use, but would actually prefer a SBR Version (just my preference).

I recently snagged a BCM Recce 11 MCMR with the mk2 upper for personal HD and fun times at the range. But this BCM with optics, carries a $2500 price tag. Gun alone was $1650 msrp. I wish I could carry this at work.

[LMT/556]

Buy once, cry once. I learned that lesson long ago...

I'd snag another Vortex HD 1x whatever but not until I can get one with .1 mil adjustments, until then I'm out. Might work on another (maybe used) ATACR 1x8 to swap between the flavor of the day...

[Sid Post]

Buy once, cry once. I learned that lesson long ago...

I Wish I went the direction long ago. My KAC SR-15 LPR is vastly superior to even my 'good' previous AR-15's. Value and good are really two different things, especially with AR-15's.

[LMT/556]

I enjoy building the uppers, selecting and sourcing the components just like I'd do back in the day with a gaming rig. If I had the opportunity over again I'd have bought that SR15 a few years ago. No biggy it'll come round.

[sidewaysil80]

After owning Colt’s, BCM, T&E’ing Daniel Defenses, T&E’ing PWS, owning a Knights LPR, and finally owning Geissele Super Duty LE 10.3 and 16...the pair of Geissele guns are my “hard use”/duty guns.

I swapped SSA and SSA-E triggers in them and added Geissele rails. Even with adding those parts the cost was on par/equal to most offerings at the entry level rifle cost. BUT, they are much more robust and well put together. From the improved gas system, well sized gas ports, and the litany of other quality control improvements they have been incredibly reliable for about 1000 rounds each so far. Accuracy of the 10.3" and 16" is hovering right around 1moa/1.25moa with IMI 77gr.

While not BETTER, I would say out of the all the brands I have experience with the Geissele is most comparable to/on par with Knights. For the price difference I'd say they are the better buy fwiw. I don't like proprietary parts and as a result shied away from Knights. But in my little world, couldn't be happier or more please with the Super Duty LE rifles.

Here is the write up I did really diving into the Geissele rifles, as you can see this is a very well put together rifle. Now that the accuracy and reliability is confirmed as far as I'm concerned, I recommend them to anyone looking for a factory rifle.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...ons&highlight=

[kirkland]

Ok so 1/7.7 or 1/8. 1/9 is marginal for 69 grain and definitely too slow for 77, so really the practical modern twist rate is between 1/7 to 1/8 unless you are running 55 and lighter.

1/7 works fine with 55gr

[pcar157]

After owning Colt’s, BCM, T&E’ing Daniel Defenses, T&E’ing PWS, owning a Knights LPR, and finally owning Geissele Super Duty LE 10.3 and 16...the pair of Geissele guns are my “hard use”/duty guns.

I swapped SSA and SSA-E triggers in them and added Geissele rails. Even with adding those parts the cost was on par/equal to most offerings at the entry level rifle cost. BUT, they are much more robust and well put together. From the improved gas system, well sized gas ports, and the litany of other quality control improvements they have been incredibly reliable for about 1000 rounds each so far. Accuracy of the 10.3" and 16" is hovering right around 1moa/1.25moa with IMI 77gr.

While not BETTER, I would say out of the all the brands I have experience with the Geissele is most comparable to/on par with Knights. For the price difference I'd say they are the better buy fwiw. I don't like proprietary parts and as a result shied away from Knights. But in my little world, couldn't be happier or more please with the Super Duty LE rifles.

Here is the write up I did really diving into the Geissele rifles, as you can see this is a very well put together rifle. Now that the accuracy and reliability is confirmed as far as I'm concerned, I recommend them to anyone looking for a factory rifle.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...ons&highlight=

It is interesting to note that the LE version is a lesser spec than the standard Super Duty rifle. Perhaps that is part of the reason the price is less than the standard Super Duty.