Better duty rifles in current production?

[wideglide]

My Nephew purchased an ADM UIC for personal and LEO use. I have not handled the weapon but it does appear "on paper" to have some nice features and they are in the sub 2,000 range. I am impressed with the specs that I have seen, ambi lower, Radian and Geissele parts. Has anyone had any experience with ADM rifles? This appears to fit the duty weapons being discussed.

[noonesshowmonkey]

I'd be looking at manufacturers that have competitive LE pricing.

FN's patrol rifles are very aggressively priced with creds. As are Sig. A few others mentioned here fit within the budget. I'd look at the Colt CCU.

For Duty rifles, I'd print out my agency policy regarding their layout and use. I also wouldn't get an SBR. I might consider a pistol, recognizing that it may cause headaches down the road. Either way, whatever rifle I was getting, I'd write off as expendable given that it will disappear in the unlikely event that you use it in an OIS.

A duty rifle must: have a sling, have a white light, have a red dot. That's it. Suppressors are nice, shorter barrels are nice, grips are nice... But those first three things are non-negotiable. And they can be managed with a Bushmaster and a $60 Troy 2-piece rail (ask me how I know). My issued Bushmaster always went bang, held zero, etc. These are tools, are used in a capacity which is well outside the envelope of personal life, and will be confiscated when used. Most shots are going to be made at or under 25m, likely less. Depending on your AO, you might actually need longer legs, but that's going to be on a case-by-case basis.

Your budget allows you to get just about anything worthwhile.

Get something light, because you're going to be carrying it and holding it on suspects a helluva lot more than shooting it.

[Sid Post]

... Get something light, because you're going to be carrying it and holding it on suspects a helluva lot more than shooting it.

For me, that's where a pencil barrel or SBR really comes into its own. For LEO uses, I wouldn't need the capabilities my SR-15 gives me with it's 18" Krieger barrel.

For rifle classes and abusive firing schedules, midweight and heavier barrels come into their own for heat management and stability for longer range shots.

For general walking about on my farm, a lightweight 11.5" barreled AR-15 really is nice.

Thankfully, the thought of any of them being taken into evidence for an "OIS" type event is EXTREMELY unlikely.

[SteveL]

They sell foreign military contracts and keep their production parts for their duty models the same with variations for specific contract needs. The component quality has gone up since they sold Bushmaster quite a bit. I believe the barrels are similar but parts are made better and finished exceptionally well. You can ask about the barrels and bolts and they will clarify it. They used to HPT and MPI the barrels, I saw the machines at the factory. They also air gauge the barrels and are pretty strict about margin of error. If I recall correctly they also test the bolts. They also proof each gun in a proof range. The duty models for contracts typically are fed 90-200 rounds. I would also guess they purchase the BCGs from a contractor who makes them for govt.

The barrels and bolts are made from the correct materials according to the specs posted on their site, but the rifling twist rate is 1:9 instead of 1:7 and no mention of testing. I can't help but think if they were testing every bolt and barrel they would make that information known without having to ask.

[Core781]

The barrels and bolts are made from the correct materials according to the specs posted on their site, but the rifling twist rate is 1:9 instead of 1:7 and no mention of testing. I can't help but think if they were testing every bolt and barrel they would make that information known without having to ask.

They have both 1/7 and 1/9 in 5.56N. I know for a fact they test fire a proof round in every build. I don't know if they proof each bolt? I would carry their duty models in combat with confidence: I might add a Sprinco and a heavier buffer but that would be it. They have had a significant demand from civilians for the 1/9”. Most folks like shooting the 55g due to lower cost.

[CrabNSR]

They have both 1/7 and 1/9 in 5.56N. I know for a fact they test fire a proof round in every build. I don't know if they proof each bolt? I would carry their duty models in combat with confidence: I might add a Sprinco and a heavier buffer but that would be it. They have had a significant demand from civilians for the 1/9”. Most folks like shooting the 55g due to lower cost.

Yeah but we're talking about duty rifles so 55gr is out of the question. HPT and MPI is more important IMO than a test fire, at best I think if they were testing barrels and bolts they're probably batch testing not individual testing.
Again, for the price, why go with them when you have companies with proven rifles that follow TDP?

[SteveL]

They have both 1/7 and 1/9 in 5.56N. I know for a fact they test fire a proof round in every build. I don't know if they proof each bolt? I would carry their duty models in combat with confidence: I might add a Sprinco and a heavier buffer but that would be it. They have had a significant demand from civilians for the 1/9”. Most folks like shooting the 55g due to lower cost.

What kind of proof round? An M197 round or a regular off-the-shelf 55 gr. round of some sort? Again, if they were doing it "right" I believe they would make it readily known.

[Sid Post]

We are kinda mixing apples and oranges here. Someone who is only buying cheap ball from WallyWorld probably isn't going to be purchasing an expensive rifle. They also probably aren't looking for TDP spec testing of components either. A DPMS Oracle for $400 and WWB blaster ammo is totally different IMHO from the original intent of this thread.

I get the LEO slant which is valid. Duty in the sense of reliability for heavier firing schedules and not letting you down after paying good money for training, travel, etc. is really where I was thinking. Not everyone has ~$2K to dump on a KAC, LMT/MRP, etc. and, there are really solid options that don't have all the Gucci shooting game features and price tags. A rifle that will serve a farmer/rancher or LEO or someone paying good money to travel and train at a more modest price point or the same price point as a Social Media worthy AR-15 from major manufacturers is where I was going.

SOLGW has a nice rifle that is ~$200 less than a Springfield Saint for example. The Saint is a good rifle for many but, I'd be better served in a training class I think with a SOLGW option. Or one of the other good value-oriented 'boutique' brands like Centurion Arms.

For general range day plinking fun, I see very little wrong with the Bushmaster I bought ~30 years ago from the same guys that are Windham today. The 1x9 barrel is a non-issue as well because people buying that type of rifle probably aren't looking to run expensive premium ammo either.

Personally, I'm thinking a Centurion Arms 12.5" upper for my SBR is in my future. I may or may not get one of the value-oriented AR-15's from SOLGW or CA for my tractor or side-by-side when dragging around my KAC with a suppressor is a bit much at some point in the future. What I do appreciate are the pertinent comments to point other people towards good AR-15 options when they recover from sticker shock with my pride and joy KAC SR-15.

[Steve-0-]

Yeah but we're talking about duty rifles so 55gr is out of the question. HPT and MPI is more important IMO than a test fire, at best I think if they were testing barrels and bolts they're probably batch testing not individual testing.
Again, for the price, why go with them when you have companies with proven rifles that follow TDP?

Actually a lot of agencies fun 55gr ammo. Esp Federal TRU.

[Core781]

The people I run into don't have deep pockets and the few that are CLEO's that I run into don't have a city board that will reimburse them for anything that doesn't protect them from a lawsuit. So yes, maybe a DPMS or similar bargain basement AR-15 but not a KAC SR-15 or similar rifle. Some of them won't even apply for one of the surplus government M-16's.

I agree. I really don't see the need for a duty/defense rifle thats better than a Colt Defense or similar. I worked with allied special forces on a number of mission types and with all the HKs, Bullpups, and cold hammered shit, our Colts got the job done just as effectively. Buy what pleases you but any well made AR will serve anyone trained to use it. These are tools the only question is are they the right tools for the job?