George Floyd and Minneapolis Police UoF - Rioting

[titsonritz]

This content was broken out from the thread on the islamic call to prayer in MSP. Keep it civil.

Meanwhile, elsewhere in this great city of tolerance...

[SteyrAUG]

Meanwhile, elsewhere in this great city of tolerance...

It's probably well known that I generally side with law enforcement by default (because I don't want to personally deal with all of the problem people of society if I don't have to) and I know the most dangerous criminals will say shit like "help me", "I can't breath" or whatever they think will get you to lower your guard for a couple seconds they need to do some horrible shit.

I also know first hand that people under the influence are dangerous, unpredictable and often stronger than you might give them credit for and I really don't want anyone in LE risking themselves or other officers on behalf of some of these individuals...but we have to come up with better shit than that.

How many legit people have died saying "I can't breath"? 5, 8 10? And if they aren't a murder, rape or some kind of other "lethal force threshold" suspect you can't kill people because they stole some shit from the 7-11, even if it was unintentional. All that is accomplished is fewer people trust law enforcement and as a result more are willing to resist arrest even over minor incidents because they don't trust you anymore than you trust them. More importantly, this shit just makes everyone else's job that much harder, including the cops who are doing things the correct way and still trying to actually "help people."

Also at this point every LEO should consider themselves on video and act accordingly. That doesn't mean you have to act like Mister Rogers when dealing with a rapist but don't do anything that is going to help a rapist get the case tossed. Four cops lost their jobs over this incident. I don't know if they were good cops who made a horrible mistake or bad cops that needed to go, but they are gone just the same. Would have been better for everyone had they done things just a little bit better.

I know we didn't see what led up to that, but we probably saw what killed the guy and I think they could have gotten him under control without having to do that. Just because it isn't 15 guys going Rodney King with impact weapons (which is also why most cops aren't allowed to have most of the compliance tools they used to possess) doesn't mean you are allowed to blood starve the brain.

I get that it's still very possible he died as a result of drugs he "might" have been under the influence of but the cop on his neck was almost certainly a significant contributing factor if not the only reason he died. In the end this just results in more people bringing gasoline to the "us vs. them" bonfire.

Once upon a time most places, even cities, managed to have actual community policing. I wonder if we can ever get back to that.

[Whiskey_Bravo]

Not an easy video to watch considering you know the guy is slowly dying.

Just my opinion, but I don't think there was any need to have the knee on his neck once the guy was cuffed. There were multiple officers there. Pick him up and put him in the back of a car. On drugs or not, the knee to the back of the neck was either the largest or the only contributing factor in that dude dying. One of the officers standing there should have at the very least noticed what was happening and started the process of getting the guy off the ground and into a squad car.

[TomMcC]

That just looks and sounds cruel.

[WillBrink]

The death of George Floyd is latest spark for some riots and "I can't breath" mantra. As anyone know, those who can't breath can't say "I can't breath" but regardless, they fired the LEOs without an investigation based on the one short vid. It did appear excessive to keep him pinned in that manner for that amount of time (8 mins apparently) and no doubt meant to be very uncomfortable. Perhaps he had a heart attack, not clear, but the lengthy knee on neck thing no doubt contributed. Bad mojo. Of course media using it to stoke of racial tensions where ever possible and this one ignited a spark:


https://www.stltoday.com/news/nation...3f76239.html#7

[Esq.]

The death of George Floyd is latest spark for some riots and "I can't breath" mantra. As anyone know, those who can't breath can't say "I can't breath" but regardless, they fired the LEOs without an investigation based on the one short vid. It did appear excessive to keep him pinned in that manner for that amount of time (8 mins apparently) and no doubt meant to be very uncomfortable. Perhaps he had a heart attack, not clear. Of course media using it to stoke of racial tensions where ever possible and this one ignited a spark:


https://www.stltoday.com/news/nation...3f76239.html#7

I have yet to see any mention of the fact that he has at least one felony conviction (theft) out of Houston, Texas.....Not surprising.

[Life's a Hillary]

I have yet to see any mention of the fact that he has at least one felony conviction (theft) out of Houston, Texas.....Not surprising.

So that makes it okay to sit on a guy's neck with your knee for an extended period of time when he is handcuffed and laying in the street and saying he can't breathe? I'm not LEO but I assume that is not standard procedure. There were plenty of officers there, throw him in the back of a car and be done with it.

[Esq.]

So that makes it okay to sit on a guy's neck with your knee for an extended period of time when he is handcuffed and laying in the street and saying he can't breathe? I'm not LEO but I assume that is not standard procedure. There were plenty of officers there, throw him in the back of a car and be done with it.

Not at all. But it provides context that is lacking in the sensationalized media use of the video. Does the video show that he fought with the officers before they took him to the ground? Did you know the guy was 46 years old, 6' 6 and 250 pounds and worked as a bouncer at clubs? Did you know that he was being accused of a forgery offense (theft) which is the same thing he had a felony conviction for here in Texas? Can you see any patterns of behavior in any of that that provide important context for the situation?

Did you hear the exchange between the officer and Mr. Floyd where Floyd essentially asks for the officer to "let him get in" or something like that- the officer responds, "You had your chance"....That tells me that they did indeed ASK, then TELL, then FORCE him to comply...The video only shows a small part of the "FORCE" portion of the encounter..... Honestly, I don't have much sympathy for criminals that want to fight the police and then play the "police brutality" card when they get hurt etc....

[Vandal]

There are two videos out as I type. The first is the video of the suspect being restrained with an actual knee the side/back of his neck, this is the now infamous video. The second was released by the Washington Post which shows the initial contact and arrest of the suspect. It then shows him being walked to the patrol vehicle. If you look closely, there are signs of a struggle as you can see a lot of quick movement but it is out of focus. There is no audio in video two as it is an exterior security camera. I'm curious what took place at the patrol car, it will be on the body cams with audio. Per the FOP rep, all body cams were on and recording. I'm also waiting on the autopsy results and tox screen to see what, if anything he was on. There are some persons who are incapable of de-escalating themselves once spun up and require additional control methods, narcotics and alcohol use only makes this worse. From the WAPost video, I don't think this was an excited delirium case, having personally been involved in a couple myself. Through training I've heard of stimulant use combined with physical resistance and/or panic causing heart attacks. I can't help but wonder if this is what happened. People who have been to jail and don't want to go back can get really strange as you get closer to the car and reality sets in.

I was never trained to actually put my knee on someone's neck, it was across the traps and shoulders to control the upper body, I have done it though when other methods have failed. I've had a knee in my neck like in the video for several minutes, it hurts and sucks and you can't get up if your hands are cuffed but it won't kill you unless the trachea is crushed. It does look bad and if your arrestee suddenly stops fighting and yelling you need to be concerned as you are responsible for them. Not a good time to keep leaning on the suspect. The autopsy results will be important. Use of force never looks good on video. There are still more questions than answers right now and the mayor seriously over-reacted.

To think this could have all been prevented if Floyd didn't commit a crime, then resist officers making a lawful arrest but no one seems to want to talk about that. Instead the internet famous and other self-righteous cops are calling these guys cowards, killers, etc without any answers to a lot of questions.

[teufelhund1918]

Part of the problem if not the problem is that LEO training has gone from proper training for practical everyday aspects of the job to satisfying the politically correct cultural demands that now exist. Hence, a lot of LEOs don't know how to properly respond to UOF situations. Knee on the neck should be a common sense thing IMHO. If you're not taught proper ways of restraining an individual, you'll have these results. Another sad situation all the way around.