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Thread: Individual or trust anyone an expert?

  1. #1
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    Individual or trust anyone an expert?

    I have some NFA plays this year since form 1 seem to be going through pretty fast, well at east they were before ll this other stuff happened. So first off I have a 6920 that I want to SBR, After that down he road a bit a few suppressors...so not a ton of stuff and nothing crazy like machine guns or anything. At least at the moment there isnt anyone else that would be using the stuff without me there. My biggest concern is that my kids get the stuff when I die and I can do that with a form 5 it seems, but if I read correctly somewhere that can only be done once? So they cant form 5 the stuff to their kids? Do I have that right?

    So is individual best for me or is there something wit a trust Im missing? I would be using a local lawyer that is very experienced in doing NFA trusts in my state, so the trust has a significantly larger initial cash outlay obviously. The cheap single shot and NFA easy trusts seem to me, to be just barely enough to keep everything legal and it seems that they dont do much else. So I dont think they would be any better than filing as individual for me since I can form 5 the stuff to my kids and those easy trusts basically dies when you do anyway. So I dont necessarily see much point in those.

  2. #2
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    Your kids can’t do the form5 unless they are of age and you may need to specify that they get it in your will. If there are multiple kids who will get it then at some point a trust may be the way to go since only one can do a form5 as I understand it.

    If you have a trust and have them listed but with a trustee of age until they become of age then it is all handled. They may not be able to be added until they reach 21, but a successor trustee with instructions to maintain things until they are of age and then add them to the trust and remove themselves solves that.

    Not knowing ages of kids and such I was just tossing out a few things to think about.

  3. #3
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    The kids are young, 2 and 4. I am 42 so if everything goes right they should be of age when my time comes. That said there being two maybe just having them on a trust as beneficiaries, which i believe their ages don't matter may be the better way to go. That way when they do take it over they could both use the stuff as they wanted to and one wouldn't have to be with the other all the time.

    I guess i just need to get it in my head this is something thats going to be for a very long time and getting a trust set up is about the cost or a case or two of ammo. Really a small price to pay in the long run.

  4. #4
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    Could be a possible answer
    Who is a beneficiary in a gun trust?

    The settlor is usually the beneficiary of a revocable living trust during his or her lifetime. After the settlor die, the settlor’s wife is usually the primary beneficiary (also known as the “remainder beneficiary”) and the settlor’s children are usually the secondary beneficiaries (also known as “contingent remainder beneficiaries”). However, the settlor is free to name any persons or organizations (such as a charity) as the trust beneficiaries. While the settlor is alive, he or she can direct the co-trustees to buy more firearms for the gun trust or to sell any of the firearms in the gun trust and distribute the cash to the settlor. After the settlor dies, the primary beneficiary (usually the spouse) is entitled to inherit whatever property (usually the settlor’s firearms collection) remains in the gun trust. If the primary beneficiary dies before or at the same time as the Settlor the secondary beneficiaries (usually the settlor’s children) are entitled to inherit whatever property remains in the gun trust. If the beneficiaries are too young to inherit the firearms in the gun trust when the settlor dies, the gun trust makes provisions for the trustees to use and possess the trust property until the beneficiaries are old enough and (in the trustees’ opinion) mature enough to inherit the trust property.

    https://texasguntrust.com/faqs


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    "The most important rule in a gunfight is: Always win and cheat if necessary." ~ Clint Smith

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombiescometh View Post
    Could be a possible answer
    Who is a beneficiary in a gun trust?

    The settlor is usually the beneficiary of a revocable living trust during his or her lifetime. After the settlor die, the settlor’s wife is usually the primary beneficiary (also known as the “remainder beneficiary”) and the settlor’s children are usually the secondary beneficiaries (also known as “contingent remainder beneficiaries”). However, the settlor is free to name any persons or organizations (such as a charity) as the trust beneficiaries. While the settlor is alive, he or she can direct the co-trustees to buy more firearms for the gun trust or to sell any of the firearms in the gun trust and distribute the cash to the settlor. After the settlor dies, the primary beneficiary (usually the spouse) is entitled to inherit whatever property (usually the settlor’s firearms collection) remains in the gun trust. If the primary beneficiary dies before or at the same time as the Settlor the secondary beneficiaries (usually the settlor’s children) are entitled to inherit whatever property remains in the gun trust. If the beneficiaries are too young to inherit the firearms in the gun trust when the settlor dies, the gun trust makes provisions for the trustees to use and possess the trust property until the beneficiaries are old enough and (in the trustees’ opinion) mature enough to inherit the trust property.

    https://texasguntrust.com/faqs


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    ^^^ this what I was trying to say.

  6. #6
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    When I started, I did personal form 4's because "trusts" weren't really viable or well known at the time, long ago. Then well into stamp collecting, trusts became pretty widely accepted. Being a single guy without kids or ex's, I didn't see the value of creating a trust for a few items being acquired so added to my personal Form 4's.

    Now being much older and somewhat smarter, I realize retrospectively that with a trust I could 'legally loan or lend' my toys to someone close to me (friend) without being around. This would have worked out better for both of us but, I guess it's always good to have two SiCo Omega's and a handful of rimfire and handgun cans between us.

    Being married with young kids, I would go with a trust that is somewhat protected from divorce craziness and would allow your kids to use those items when they are old enough.

    Also, while a retail NFA transfer requires you to be 21 years old, a private NFA person-to-person transfer can be completed at 18 years of age. I know one person who did that with an M203 when they were 19. What the age rules are with NFA trusts is a mystery to me. In any case, I would suggest talking with a 'qualified' NFA lawyer in your state before you complete more NFA transfers.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by loki993 View Post
    The kids are young, 2 and 4. I am 42 so if everything goes right they should be of age when my time comes. That said there being two maybe just having them on a trust as beneficiaries, which i believe their ages don't matter may be the better way to go. That way when they do take it over they could both use the stuff as they wanted to and one wouldn't have to be with the other all the time.

    I guess i just need to get it in my head this is something thats going to be for a very long time and getting a trust set up is about the cost or a case or two of ammo. Really a small price to pay in the long run.
    I write about two NFA trusts a month and have for a long time. I typically draft a trust so that minor children of the grantor automatically become additional trustees upon turning age 21. A lot of people like to do it that way. I include the birthdate of the child in the language. I set up my additional trustees on a separate schedule, so it’s pretty easy to change at a later date. I have not had a trust kicked back, but your mileage may vary.


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  8. #8
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    FWIW, I think you will be happier with a Trust and a lawyer that specializes in them. If you are in VA by any chance I can give you a good name. The Trust just gives you so much more flexibility and you never know what life will throw your way.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by 390ish View Post
    I write about two NFA trusts a month and have for a long time. I typically draft a trust so that minor children of the grantor automatically become additional trustees upon turning age 21.
    Doesn't that also allow them to control through their adult life and leave to their children if desired? Or am I wrong about that?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by tb-av View Post
    Doesn't that also allow them to control through their adult life and leave to their children if desired? Or am I wrong about that?
    Typically the grantor is the only one who can edit or control terms of the trust. Trustees merely carry out the objectives of the trust. When kids become trustees at 21 they are merely carrying out what the terms of the trust direct. Completely separate from determining remainder beneficiaries, which would be the call of the grantor up until the time of his death.


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