LWRC SMG-45 or ...?

[Sid Post]

I'm looking for a pistol to Form 1 into an SBR most likely, assuming the 'pistol braces' don't work out as intended. I prefer more mass and a bigger hole for subsonic use with a suppressor. I could use a 300BO super short rifle but, at ~$2/rd right now isn't terribly attractive for the volume I shoot so, I'm thinking 45ACP 'ball' ammo inside ~75 yards with something that handles well and swings fast (think dogs running full speed at me). Last time, I anchored the dog at ~30 yards at a dead hard run directly at me (in fact, the M193 from KAC SR-15 seemed to fragment on impact with no exits and caused him to stop at the front legs while the rear end came up and over with no further movement).

While my KAC SR-15 is a truly awesome rifle, even in my pathic hands, it's not what I want to be using inside 30 yards, especially with a suppressor mounted. I'm thinking a 45ACP rifle with a short barrel and a suppressor is a better solution for me. A 16" barrel and can is out as I can do that with a non-NFA AR-15/9/whatever.

I am thinking about an LWRC SMG-45 as an initial option. A Sig MPX might be a worthwhile choice for 9mm but, I'm thinking 45ACP right now especially since I do see feral hogs occasionally and I have zero confidence in a 9mm working there, though for dogs it is probably good enough.

What experiences does everyone have with the SMG-45? Or, something similar from B&T or some other manufacturer I have missed?

TIA,
Sid

[Defaultmp3]

No personal experiences on anything outside my CZ Evo, but on the B&T front, there's a 10mm coming if you want even more oomph (though that would be even more expensive than .45 ACP, and if ammo cost is an issue...): https://www.tactical-life.com/firear...ubmachine-gun/

I have also heard that the CMMG radial delayed blowback is pretty nice, much smoother than a standard blowback.

There are the Tommy Bostic clones if you're interested in a quality UMP clone. There are also a couple of different high quality MP5 clone makers if you have the money and will (e.g., Dakota Tactical).

[Sid Post]

No personal experiences on anything outside my CZ Evo, but on the B&T front, there's a 10mm coming if you want even more oomph (though that would be even more expensive than .45 ACP, and if ammo cost is an issue...): https://www.tactical-life.com/firear...ubmachine-gun/

I have G40 (6" barrel model) and G20 pistols so, yes I am a fan of the 10mm but, ammunition is generally hard to find and relatively expensive so not what I generally want to blast a pack of dogs with.

I have also heard that the CMMG radial delayed blowback is pretty nice, much smoother than a standard blowback.

Thanks! I'll have to give that some consideration.

There are the Tommy Bostic clones if you're interested in a quality UMP clone. There are also a couple of different high quality MP5 clone makers if you have the money and will (e.g., Dakota Tactical).

No UMPs for me. To be blunt, I think they are a real step backward made for penny-pinching bureaucrats. Plus, recoil is pretty harsh for what they are. Even as spendy as an SMG-45 is, a good 9mm MP-5 SBR costs more unless HK is delivering larger quantities of the HK-94 these days. Dakota and similar MP-5 builds, besides being 9mm (40S&W and 10mm), start to make an SMG-45 look like a bargain! However, if you know where I can get a Dakota MP-5 SBR for ~$3000, I'm listening!

[md66948]

I have G40 (6" barrel model) and G20 pistols so, yes I am a fan of the 10mm but, ammunition is generally hard to find and relatively expensive so not what I generally want to blast a pack of dogs with.



Thanks! I'll have to give that some consideration.



No UMPs for me. To be blunt, I think they are a real step backward made for penny-pinching bureaucrats. Plus, recoil is pretty harsh for what they are. Even as spendy as an SMG-45 is, a good 9mm MP-5 SBR costs more unless HK is delivering larger quantities of the HK-94 these days. Dakota and similar MP-5 builds, besides being 9mm (40S&W and 10mm), start to make an SMG-45 look like a bargain! However, if you know where I can get a Dakota MP-5 SBR for ~$3000, I'm listening!

Is this what you are looking for: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsVWvUbpY2g or this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umAMo9_Thg4

These are not for sale.

[Sid Post]

Is this what you are looking for: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsVWvUbpY2g or this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umAMo9_Thg4

These are not for sale.

Yes, MP-5's would be nice but, they are hard to find and super expensive today. The new 9mm semi options from HK might be an option at some point with a Form 1 conversion for the stock. I have also thought about the B&T options now that they are available in the USA to mere civilians like myself.

[Mike Miller]

I'm looking for a pistol to Form 1 into an SBR most likely, assuming the 'pistol braces' don't work out as intended.(think dogs running full speed at me). Last time, I anchored the dog at ~30 yards at a dead hard run directly at me (in fact, the M193 from KAC SR-15 seemed to fragment on impact with no exits and caused him to stop at the front legs while the rear end came up and over with no further movement).

I have zero confidence in a 9mm working there, though for dogs it is probably good enough.

What agency do you work for?

[ccosby]

If you want 45 acp I'd say that, the kriss vector in 45, the cmmg delayed blowback 45 or get a ump clone(Tommy built ksc).

I'd prob go with the lwrc myself.

Edit: I forgot about the B&T guns. They have the apc in 45 which should be an excellent choice.

[Sid Post]

If you want 45 acp I'd say that, the kriss vector in 45, the cmmg delayed blowback 45 or get a ump clone(Tommy built ksc).

I'd prob go with the lwrc myself.

Edit: I forgot about the B&T guns. They have the apc in 45 which should be an excellent choice.

I have gone back forth on the B&T APC versus LWRC SMG-45. In the end, LWRC is a solid US company that uses good HK Magazines and a general AR-15/M-16 layout versus the B&T which uses expensive mags that are sole-source with a lot of expensive proprietary accessories. I'm sure either would be good solutions but, at this point I am a bit more comfortable with an LWRC solution against the B&T which is a fine firearm too.

[Sid Post]

If you want 45 acp I'd say that, the kriss vector in 45, the cmmg delayed blowback 45 or get a ump clone(Tommy built ksc).

I'd prob go with the lwrc myself.

Edit: I forgot about the B&T guns. They have the apc in 45 which should be an excellent choice.

No UMP solutions for me. That is a path I choose not to go down. The only HK solution that I considered was a 40S&W or 10mm MP-5 SBR which is just too spendy to be practical for me.

The Kriss is interesting but, I'm thinking that sticking to an AR-15/M-16'ish platform is better for me personally.

I also considered something like the IWI Tavor series but, I don't want to sling high-velocity rounds in the trees as I don't like the whistle or whir from ricochets and their unpredictable trajectories. My friend has had some bullets land in his pond while fishing in his boat so. that threat is real enough for me as I want all rounds, ricochet or not, to stay on my property and a ~1100FPS blunt slug is a lot more apt to stay closer to home than a rifle round that is much sleeker and faster. I don't want to Hazzard my neighbors so, rifle rounds for me are very restrictive as to where I will take a shot and where I won't and a 45ACP trajectory would allow me a little more freedom to safely fire a shot as it will impact the Earth before it leaves my property. If I miss with a rifle round it really needs a good berm for a backstop which only works with the lay of the land and the positions of other peoples stuff (or livestock).

For clarity, my friend lives a mile away from me and his issue was from someone unrelated to this discussion doing target practice in 'their' back pasture.

[ccosby]

Yea B&T made a glock mag lower for the 9mm gun but I don't believe they did for the 45. The LWRC is something I wanted a while ago but they took too long to come out with it and well I bought more another machinegun in 45 acp instead. The CMMG delayed blowback guns are said to be good, something to consider.

Not sure if you carry a pistol as well but having something that takes glock mags along with a glock could be good.

I'd think the LWRC would end up being a good choice.