Byrna HD Pepper Ball Gun

[WillBrink]

An interesting idea for less lethal option:

[pointblank4445]

Can't speak for others but the only time I've seen pepperball be consistently effective is for creating area denial when introducing chemical agent via injection or hand-thrown munition isn't an option and a ferret round would be too high-risk (i.e. small space and risk injuring individual). Or...

For direct impact to an individual, high-volume is key to getting a combo of pain compliance AND a significant amount of agent introduced quickly enough for immediate reaction. With limited capacity and power source, I question the ability of this delivery system to consistently alter a motivated individual's behavior. Enter the "it's better than nothing" argument I guess.

[WillBrink]

Can't speak for others but the only time I've seen pepperball be consistently effective is for creating area denial when introducing chemical agent via injection or hand-thrown munition isn't an option and a ferret round would be too high-risk (i.e. small space and risk injuring individual). Or...

For direct impact to an individual, high-volume is key to getting a combo of pain compliance AND a significant amount of agent introduced quickly enough for immediate reaction. With limited capacity and power source, I question the ability of this delivery system to consistently alter a motivated individual's behavior. Enter the "it's better than nothing" argument I guess.

They appear to hurt plenty too from some other vids I viewed and left large welts that looked painful.

[utahjeepr]

Will, as is usually the case, you bring something interesting to the table. Looks like a pretty cool gadget.

Less than lethal options kind of concern me though. I see the need for them for LE/Agency use. Situations where use of force is needed, but there exists some hope of getting the situation under control without using deadly force. It is a fine line, and a difficult one to accurately define. LEOs also have back up (not always I know), agencies look at "contingent lines of defense".

For civilians I do not see much use for LTL munitions. One either has justification to use force or one does not. If I am pushed to the point that I must use a weapon to defend myself, I will be using lethal force. I have no backup. I have no second line of defense or containment. I also have no right to a graduated scale of force. I am in fear for myself and others or I am not, there is no legal "well maybe, so let's go with the LTL" for John Q Public.

I also fear that items like these will erode the right to self defense. I see this as being along the same BS line as "try to shoot them in the leg", or "fire warning shots". I would also be afraid to have one of these around if I did have to defend myself. I can see the accusation being thrown about that I had "better options at hand" than deadly force. Officers have been thrown under that bus, no thanks.

As has been said, better than nothing. Perhaps a poor substitute for a person who knows they could never pull the trigger on a deadly weapon.

[pointblank4445]

They appear to hurt plenty too from some other vids I viewed and left large welts that looked painful.

I addressed the pain compliance factor and know what a pepperball feels like. With a limited capacity launcher such as this, it’s effectiveness against a motivated aggressor is questionable. Multiple stacked hits with the possibility of more to come is the only way pain compliance works with pepperball if the chemical agent isn’t achieving the desired effect...

[jbjh]

Will, as is usually the case, you bring something interesting to the table. Looks like a pretty cool gadget.

Less than lethal options kind of concern me though. I see the need for them for LE/Agency use. Situations where use of force is needed, but there exists some hope of getting the situation under control without using deadly force. It is a fine line, and a difficult one to accurately define. LEOs also have back up (not always I know), agencies look at "contingent lines of defense".

For civilians I do not see much use for LTL munitions. One either has justification to use force or one does not. If I am pushed to the point that I must use a weapon to defend myself, I will be using lethal force. I have no backup. I have no second line of defense or containment. I also have no right to a graduated scale of force. I am in fear for myself and others or I am not, there is no legal "well maybe, so let's go with the LTL" for John Q Public.

I also fear that items like these will erode the right to self defense. I see this as being along the same BS line as "try to shoot them in the leg", or "fire warning shots". I would also be afraid to have one of these around if I did have to defend myself. I can see the accusation being thrown about that I had "better options at hand" than deadly force. Officers have been thrown under that bus, no thanks.

As has been said, better than nothing. Perhaps a poor substitute for a person who knows they could never pull the trigger on a deadly weapon.

While I don't know that this is necessarily a great option for civilians, I will say that LTL options are a very important tool in the toolbox of self defense.

I carry pepper spray every day, and have several large canisters in the house. The reason being is that if there's someone who I have a verbal encounter with, it might not rise to the level of drawing a firearm. Imagine some traffic incident where an unarmed person exits their car to confront you (not hard to picture). Even if the person is pounding on my window, I’m pretty sure brandishing is the wrong thing to do here. But depending on what’s going on, I really won't hesitate to crack the window and give someone a snout full of OC while I'm dialing 911. While I haven’t sprayed anyone, there are several similar encounters I’ve been in where OC would have been the next step, but pulling a gun would not.

Not every self defense encounter is an appropriate situation for deadly force.

[1_click_off]

Tippman A5 full of .68 caliber balls like this would be good. Thought they were already using pepper balls in paintball guns in prisons?

Edit: My old A5 was fairly accurate until about 380fps but if I wanted it to just fly screw balls everywhere, I could go to about 425 before I started breaking balls up in the barrel.

[dwhitehorne]

I addressed the pain compliance factor and know what a pepperball feels like. With a limited capacity launcher such as this, it’s effectiveness against a motivated aggressor is questionable. Multiple stacked hits with the possibility of more to come is the only way pain compliance works with pepperball if the chemical agent isn’t achieving the desired effect...

^^^This^^^ 5 rounds of pepperballs is nothing. The video mentions up to 60 feet. That's 20 yards. No one is being incapacitated with 5 pepperballs. We teach with OC to spray in the upper chest and mouth to get the nasal membranes and eyes affected. 5 pepperballs that may or may not break on contact are not doing much to an aggressor. I see this as nothing more effective than a BB gun and no one on this board would consider that.

The other aspect is you would be pointing something that looks like a gun. Aggressor is yelling at me, you point a pepperball gun, you get shot and the aggressor says I was arguing and the guy pointed a gun at me. I would also imagine this will be hundreds of dollars. David

[blade_68]

If I was to "go there" I would get a "Civ" TASER. I did have a few small O.C. cans now I have just 3 cans of bear spray at (R.V.) home. Black bears are seen in my area. My duty belt has O.C. and a TASER for duty use. Home / off duty not likely for me to use them and be thrown under bus. Bear spray is for just that or animals... one could be a 2 leg one as a last resort.
I'd not want to be in a situation and pull that out and be mistakingly as a firearm and elevating the situation. Unless it was on animals.
Reasons... dirtbag(s) are know to have firearms to. Many know that regular people don't want to shoot someone. It could be a bad guy or could be some one that just flipped. the "minor" pain from it might piss off that person and escalated them to more action. Next reason O.C. don't work on every one, much less a emotional disturbed, drugged up or impaired person. Just some thoughts about it.

[zombiescometh]

I’ve always been tempted to get something similar but then I see the price of ammo/cartridges.


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