On manufacturing quality...

[Diamondback]

Where basic architecture is concerned that is fairly accurate.

Thanks, I was mainly looking at the block itself--most of my real deep RR knowledge base loses relevance after the deathknell of the New York Central in early '68, and the newest on that was GP40s, SW1500s, two experimental 3300hp GE U-Boats that were rebuilt back to U30B's and almost the entire run of Alco C430s. (Which I don't know, and suspect I'll never figure out other than needing to keep Alco's freight business what in God's good name that sack of crap Perlman was smoking when he bought them.)

[Coal Dragger]

Interesting pics. If memory serves, isn't the 710 just a bored and stroked 645, which was in turn a bored/stroked version of the original 1930s EMC 567?

To the non-railroaders: EMC/EMD model numbers are based on cylinder count and cubes per, the 20-645 that powered the late 1960s SD45 and required its distinctive flared radiator was a V-20 at 645cid per cyl, while a typical 1950s E-series passenger diesel had two 12-567s and the light-duty models in the SW series of yard switchers ran 6-567s. The 6000hp 265H that ran the short-lived and no-virtually-extinct SD90MAC are an exception to this pattern, but the 1010 derived from it is a reversion.

My understanding is that certain EMD 567 blocks could accept the power assemblies of an EMD 645 which was just a larger bore diameter sleeve and piston, and some EMD 567's were actually built on EMD 645 blocks. The 710 is the same bore diameter as a 645 but also has a longer stroke and no longer can be had with roots type blowers, EMD hybrid centrifugal geared super/turbocharger only on those.

My experiences with the EMD SD90MAC are limited to a few trash pile UP units that we got in interchange in 2007 and 2008. They were always breaking or having problems, plus putting 6000hp to the rail with only 6 powered axles and 430,000lbs over the drivers couldn't be done at low speeds or starting. So even though a 6000hp locomotive would more efficiently move a train once up to speed, they are no better at heavy haul starting on a grade.

The new EMD SD70ACe with the new 4 stroke is a rare sight. I have run one of them a year or two ago on a UP coal set we run to the mines. Very quiet, and the cab layout has been changed for the better. Most EMD's are flaming trash piles and don't hold up well in the cab, and the layout of the windows, seats, and controls is substandard compared to a GE; plus the 710 two strokes are droning loud shit to run. I'm still not impressed with the new motor though, it was a cold night and the stupid engine wouldn't run full load because the exhaust was too cold and wouldn't get up to temp. Probably some tier 4 emissions bullshit, the whole exhaust system was shrouded and covered in wires, sensors, and who know what else. Probably a maintenance nightmare, I'm happy to let UP beta test that shit and keep it off my road until it actually works right.

[ThirdWatcher]

... We have to stop with "good riddance" type attitudes and instead change to "we must fix this," or else we are all going to be impoverished.

How would you have me “fix this”? I’ve done my time and now I’m retired.

[SomeOtherGuy]

How would you have me “fix this”? I’ve done my time and now I’m retired.

If you're retired, all I would ask is that you not say "good riddance" and encourage moving jobs out of the USA when the problem could be fixed, by someone else, through better management, training and/or hiring.

I don't expect a retiree to do anything affirmatively, just don't encourage other people to do things that harm the country, even if out of frustration.

I remember quite well when US cars were basically junk. I also know from both statistics and my own personal experience that GM for one has radically improved quality, and my three GM trucks in the last 15 years have had no significant defects or durability issues... compared to three Hondas I've owned in 20 years that were all defective, two of them requiring transmission replacements under warranty before 50k miles. Those two were US-made Hondas FWIW. Sure, that's anecdotal, but you can get decent statistics on car manufacturers broadly and will find that:
Toyota/Lexus continues to dominate
GM and Ford are better than you would think
Chrysler / FCA... well um
Various other brands don't do so well

There is no magic location for car quality - the US, Japan, and German makers all produce good and bad products depending on the company. It comes down to management in the end. Management is responsible for hiring, processes, and procurement.

[Diamondback]

My understanding is that certain EMD 567 blocks could accept the power assemblies of an EMD 645 which was just a larger bore diameter sleeve and piston, and some EMD 567's were actually built on EMD 645 blocks. The 710 is the same bore diameter as a 645 but also has a longer stroke and no longer can be had with roots type blowers, EMD hybrid centrifugal geared super/turbocharger only on those.

Yup... over on Wikipedia, it's claimed that 567's and some early 645's are *very* popular for rebuilding and repowering because they're Emissions Exempt. You can't do the 645 upgrade with an original 567A/B "off the shelf," but the 567C on can, and if you rebuild an A or B up to C spec (mainly by deleting the water deck and replacing it with the C's water manifold) the resulting 567AC/BC *can* take the 645 upgrade. The last 567's, the E built for two months in 1966, used 645E blocks.

Interesting quote: "Unlike the 645 series, the 710 series does not offer a Roots-blown model, but nothing in the basic design of that engine prevents such an offering, although a pair of Roots blowers which would be required for a Roots-blown 710 series likely would be too large (too long) to fit in the available carbody space, and making a special carbody just for the very few likely to be ordered would be economically unsound." The former engineering student in me takes that as a challenge, and looks to the old 40-line as a solution, recalling that one line had EMD build a "small-block long-frame" unit to get extra fuel capacity for a "medium power but long unrefueled range" application... take the longer frame for a 16- or 20-710 powered engine but plop on a 12-cyl PM. (Example being how the V-12 SD39 and V-20 SD45 shared a frame, but the 39's shorter carbody resulted in porches big enough to host a BBQ on at each end... so maybe start with an SD70ACe/45 or SD80ACe frame, and call it an "SD68ACe"?)

[ThirdWatcher]

If you're retired, all I would ask is that you not say "good riddance" and encourage moving jobs out of the USA when the problem could be fixed, by someone else, through better management, training and/or hiring.

There is no magic location for car quality - the US, Japan, and German makers all produce good and bad products depending on the company. It comes down to management in the end. Management is responsible for hiring, processes, and procurement.

It’s time to build up the trade schools in this Country (take the money .gov gives to the colleges and use it for something that would actually benefit all of us). Ethics should be a required subject. Your employer has the right to expect a day’s work for a day’s pay. Once that attitude is instilled then Made in USA will actually stand for something.

[ThirdWatcher]

BTW, I am aware that there are lot of companies that do things right in this Country and these are companies I choose to do business with. An important part of this to me is how they treat their employees. Ironically these are the companies that are usually the most successful.

[utahjeepr]

An important part of this to me is how they treat their employees. Ironically these are the companies that are usually the most successful.

Employees are a capital investment. You put money into training, nurturing, and promoting them. You hope that investment will be met with gratitude, some loyalty, and the drive to get even better. Companies that treat employees like crap are in trouble and their management team is doing a lot more harm than good. Retention/promotion beats replacement/outside hire every day of the week, assuming merit based vs cronyism.

[Coal Dragger]

That’s not how we do things where I work.

The official policy seems to be that employees are scum, and their jobs shall be eliminated whenever possible and made to be miserable otherwise.

[ThirdWatcher]

Man, that’s really sad. I agree 100% with utahjeepr’s post. People really do matter and things will never get any better until more people discover that truth.