On manufacturing quality...

[Slater]

..In this case, heavy equipment.

My workcenter ordered a pair of new Caterpillar 9000-lb forklifts (model 943 something or other), with the reach capability. Which is out to 20-odd feet or so.

We got them in and they looked pretty nice. Got a how-to class from the Cat rep, and everything seemed fine.

I was operating one about a week later and I noticed that when I stepped on the brake pedal, nothing happened. Luckily, I was able to coast to a stop without hitting anything. The other forklift (assigned to another shop) had similar issues. We also noticed a coolant leak on ours. So, both machines went back to the Cat dealer for repair. We were told that both complete front axles were replaced.

A couple weeks later, the same thing started happening again. To both forklifts. Also, ours sprung a hydraulic leak.

Myself and a co-worked were asked to take a transmission oil sample from ours (for some reason) and send it in to Cat. I'm not a mechanic, but in my experience, the tranny fluid on the vehicles I've worked with has been a red or pinkish color. When we pulled the sample from our forklift (using a plastic pump/soda straw-looking thingy), the fluid was the appearance of gray dishwater with some sort of particles suspended in it. Turns out that the torque converter needed to be replaced.

At that point, management threw in the towel and had Cat come and get their crap. Now, every time I see equipment with the "CAT" name on it, I'm reminded of the worst pieces of mechanical garbage that I've worked with. I would have been more comfortable with a Korean or Chinese machine.

For those of you that work with this sort of equipment, is this typical of Caterpillar?

[Averageman]

I've worked on a lot of CAT Engines.
All of them were near bullet proof.
It was always easy to get s tech if needed.

[MegademiC]

Sounds like a bad couple got out.

We have older Cats that have been great.
Our best fork truck is a 15000lb mitsubishi.

We have a Taylor as well, had an issue but was fixed by the factory and good since. They also have great CS IME.

We’ve had a few pieces from HK group (owns taylor) and they all seem solid.

[utahjeepr]

I have run a lot of equipment. I have run machines by probably most but certainly not all manufacturers selling in conus. I have seen problems with brand new machines more often than I think should happen. Cat is guilty as well, but as a general rule I would say they are amongst the better of the pack. Unfortunately with an overwhelming number of products these days QC is not what it should be. Caterpillar field service always takes care of our warrantee issues, as do most manufacturers. That does not address the lost productivity and down time though.

Quite often our mechanics will fix the machine, at our expense, just to get the equipment up. The down time waiting for a warranty repair would cost more in lost production than the repair will cost us. It ain't right, but when push comes to shove you do the math and fix it.

[Slater]

We're getting by with our older equipment. When the time comes that we have to replace something though, it sure as Hell won't be a Caterpillar.

[Aetius]

I’ve run some CAT equipment, never had any problems, but that was several years ago. I have recently seen some outfits running tractors with a lot of hours on them. Wonder if new equipment quality has something to do with it. Im also seeing a lot of Komatsu, but have no idea about their quality.

[chadbag]

I think the bean counters at a lot of these companies today figure it is cheaper to have to fix a few now and then than it is to do it right in the first place. That, and they've outsourced a lot of their sub components out to all over the world and they don't have control over it like they think they do -- low bidder wins. (I don't know this about CAT or any other heavy equipment maker in detail -- just that a lot of this sort of thing goes on now -- look at Boeing with jets for example).

[SomeOtherGuy]

Yeah it's a sad state of affairs. Bean counters are a major problem, along with idiot management who thinks they can rely on quality certifications from places like China and India. Some relatives own a tier 3 auto supplier and have had to deal with customer-mandated outsourcing to those countries (forced by their customers, regardless of true cost), and the huge, repeated and entirely predictable problems that it brings. Some companies have wised up a little bit, but this was absolute idiocy around 2005-2010.

So many of the quality problems come down to a bean counter or senior manager requiring use of a cheap foreign supplier that promises to deliver quality but doesn't, and probably couldn't do it even if they wanted to. In tractors, tractor implements, and ATVs/ORVs this is a regular issue for gears, gearboxes and bearings in particular. It's to the point that even moderately knowledgeable consumers are looking for it, and some companies make a selling point of using Japanese or Taiwanese bearings. Poor steel is also a regular issue for some really simple stuff like discs and plow blades, even when the spec is basically simple carbon 1050-1080 with nothing fancy, a product that the US and UK were making by around 1880 or even earlier.

[AKDoug]

I own five pieces of Cat equipment. The newest two are two and three years old. My 259D compact track loader has been flawless from day one. The same goes for my 308E2 excavator. I finally lost a head gasket in one of my 416E backhoes after 10,000 hours, it was an easy fix. My other 416E is doing great at over 8000 hours. My D3G LGP has been no problem at all.

In my locality Cat rules for having parts in stock and getting the ones they don't stock quickly.

That said, for mini-excavators I far prefer the designs of the new Bobcat units vs. Cat's units. The Bobcat units are also 20% cheaper to purchase.

[SteyrAUG]

This will sadly be the new trend, Made in the USA also made to be disposable crap so that they can compete with the shitty imports.