Philadelphia protests turning violent; what's happening in your AOR?

[The_War_Wagon]

Last night, the 9news was saying that the shooter was not licensed as a security guard in Denver. Pinkerton and 7News are going to pay out the ass on this.

Awwww... I'm ALL broken up about THAT...

[The_War_Wagon]

Last night, the 9news was saying that the shooter was not licensed as a security guard in Denver. Pinkerton and 7News are going to pay out the ass on this.

Awwww... I'm ALL broken up about THAT...

[AndyLate]

I'd rather get tased again than pepper sprayed again. Hands down, no question.

There are too many unknown variables being assumed here.

There is too little known at this point to say for certain whether or not the shooting was "reasonable" and therefore justified... but it doesn't look to good.

I cannot imagine the variable that justifies shooting a person who is retreating from you while presenting a non-lethal weapon.

Andy

[Averageman]

I guess I have a different idea of why you hire security.
I would think that if my work requires I go somewhere that is possibly dangerous hiring 'Security" is prudent. I need 360 degree protection while I am in the danger zone doing my work. I'm going to go in, do my work and leave as soon as possible.
While in the danger zone, I'm going to take instructions from Security, get my work done and again, leave the area as soon as possible.

That's the way it should go, but it sometimes goes sideways and one of the ways it goes sideways is that the people who are being secured don't fully understand the danger, or the Security underestimates the threat.
In my opinion there is another way it can go sideways, but for this to happen, everyone is at fault and things are about to go really bad.
If the people being protected don't see the threat, or they refuse to acknowledge the danger they are in and somehow become emboldened and act dangerously stupid and/or the attention of the Security detail is distracted and they lose focus.
And then there are the rare and stupid few who hire "Security" but really want some Thugs and Bullies.

If you somehow lose track of the people you are Securing and you are now going "hands on" with a random third party, you screwed the pooch and that's what happened here. Someone forgot their role, acted dangerously and here we are. More importantly, None of this had to happen.
I'm guessing someone wanted to make News rather than report it and someone else decided to be a confrontation bully rather than a Security Guard.

[1986s4]

Just heard a report that there was another person wounded and that the "Security" guy from Pinkerton is somehow tied to Antifa.

Can't be... Antifa is just an idea....

But if the police continue to ignore obvious law breaking more people are going to take enforcement of the law into their own hands. A society is peaceful when the majority is confident that the law will prevail. Once that trust is broken anarchy ensues..

[okie]

I cannot imagine the variable that justifies shooting a person who is retreating from you while presenting a non-lethal weapon.

Andy

Whether pepper spray is lethal or not depends on the intent of the person. To be valid self defense, the attacker has to have the intent to gravely harm, and the means to do it. If intent has been established, pepper spray could absolutely be part of the means.

And if you're presenting a weapon, it's not a retreat.

Judging from the photos, though, it's pretty hard to imagine a scenario in which this could have been a good shoot. It looks like the shooter was the aggressor from the beginning, and he obviously drew his gun without cause. It seems he assaulted the victim by trying to take away his pepper spray. Even if that's not the case, a slap to the face is far from meeting the criteria for using deadly force, meaning he is guilty of assault, meaning the victim had every right to spray him at that point.

[jpmuscle]

I love how you guys proclaim the law is the law when it serves the interests of our side but when the same law burns a dude like Rittenhouse for his actions the collective tune changes mighty quick.

As to the incident in question it’s all conjecture and mental masturbation until all the facts come out. A lot of y’all did the same thing with Floyd and Chauvin until it came out the former had enough Fentanyl in his system to kill an elephant.


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[AndyLate]

Whether pepper spray is lethal or not depends on the intent of the person. To be valid self defense, the attacker has to have the intent to gravely harm, and the means to do it. If intent has been established, pepper spray could absolutely be part of the means.

And if you're presenting a weapon, it's not a retreat.

Judging from the photos, though, it's pretty hard to imagine a scenario in which this could have been a good shoot. It looks like the shooter was the aggressor from the beginning, and he obviously drew his gun without cause. It seems he assaulted the victim by trying to take away his pepper spray. Even if that's not the case, a slap to the face is far from meeting the criteria for using deadly force, meaning he is guilty of assault, meaning the victim had every right to spray him at that point.

It sounds like I am trying to discount pepper spray as a threat. I am not, but it is not a lethal weapon. I agree that the use of pepper spray combined with other factors can justify deadly force.

The only thing that makes any sense to me is that auntyfag guy saw that sleeveless had a pistol in a shoulder holster, was a bit disoriented by the slap, and decided the pistol was being presented, not pepper spray. Barring clearer video, witness statements, etc, that is the only scenario that would begin to explain drawing and shooting somebody in the eye for slapping you.

Andy

[utahjeepr]

He is ostensibly acting as PSD. A security asset NEVER makes himself part of the situation. Unless there is a camera crew set up and immobile right there that I don't see, then he is completely violating every tenet of protective security.

The victim here made mistakes. He is not without blame, but nothing here rises to deadly force being used against him. An LEO making an arrest of this individual would have a hard case to make. I private citizen on his own business would have an almost insurmountable task showing reasonable use of force. But a member of a protective detail repeatedly and intentionally escalating a situation up to and including the use of deadly force? Jojo is toast.

[Ron3]

I don't think they'd get a murder 1 conviction even if it was a Trump supporter shooting Antifa. They'd have to prove malice, and I think that would be difficult here. Voluntary manslaughter? All day long.

I'm not familiar with the State laws there. But in Florida it would probably be murder 1.