6mm ARC: Has Hornady Struck Gold?

[Dino11]

https://www.ammosc.com/categories/ar...s/6mm-arc.html

https://www.amend2mags.com/Products/...round-magazine

Just a couple examples that will work,

[Tokarev]

https://www.ammosc.com/categories/ar...s/6mm-arc.html

https://www.amend2mags.com/Products/...round-magazine

Just a couple examples that will work,

I see Midway has "AR Stoner" mags listed. I assume these are made by ASC for Midway. Can anyone confirm?

[FlyingHunter]

Color me interested when:

12.5 uppers from recognized quality manufacturers are GTG

[Todd.K]

If this thing gets significant adoption, good (inexpensive, reliable, available, standardized) mags will come

There is only so much you can do within the limitations of the AR-15 magwell. A slightly larger intermediate rifle and magwell would allow a magazine designed without any compromises.

[1168]

There is only so much you can do within the limitations of the AR-15 magwell. A slightly larger intermediate rifle and magwell would allow a magazine designed without any compromises.

Yeah, I was kinda hoping that the CMMG 7.62x39 system was going somewhere, but it does not seem to be. In the meantime, I suspect that it is possible to make good mags for the 6mm ARC in the standard magwell.

[Tokarev]

Yeah, I was kinda hoping that the CMMG 7.62x39 system was going somewhere, but it does not seem to be. In the meantime, I suspect that it is possible to make good mags for the 6mm ARC in the standard magwell.

Mad Dog Weapons was working on an "intermediate" receiver set based on the LWRC 6.8 pattern. I don't know what has become of the project.

Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

[pinzgauer]

Yeah, I was kinda hoping that the CMMG 7.62x39 system was going somewhere, but it does not seem to be. In the meantime, I suspect that it is possible to make good mags for the 6mm ARC in the standard magwell.

I can't speak to the new cartridge, but it's a bit funny listening to you guys talk as if mags don't work for Grendel. Multiple grendels in my circle of family and friends. None of us have issues with mags. It's just a non-issue. And most of us have been shooting Grendel since ~2007 or before.

Alexander arms has huge amounts of testing full auto with Grendel. Brass and steel case. Other than some very early 2007 time frame C products magazines with out of spec feedlips it's just not been an issue.

I love the elander magazines though the ASC and c products ones are fine.

I even shoot using pmags on the bench because for five rounds or less there's absolutely no issue. They start getting flaky around 10 rounds. This is because the thicker wall of the magazines presents the rounds from stacking correctly.

There are a couple of constraints:

1) there is just flat out not enough room due to the magwell width for polymer mags and their thicker walls. Likewise aluminum can't be used... as they have to have deeper ridges in the walls for strength and there's not enough room for that. But stainless mags are fine.

2) if you want to keep the same curve as 556 30 rounders you are limited to 25-27 rounds.

So you are looking at capacity differences for a standard loadout of 6+1 mags (or whatever), and a few ounces more weight for stainless versus aluminum.

One last thing: a lot of non-AR bench shooters gave Grendel a try early on due to its inherent accuracy. And in doing so many would order high dollar barrels with custom chambers and have a non-AR smith buildup or rifle for them. Along the way they sprinkled lots of pixie dust on it like tight Chambers and similar.

Two primary examples: going with a non-standard tighter throat, and going with a tighter neck.

So a lot of people who complained about Grendel early on were essentially trying to apply bolt gun accuracy methods to what we would call franken builds.

"I can do it better" experimental frankenbuilds... typical AR recipe for disaster that we see even in this forum.

The SAAMI chamber and throat are capable of 0.5 moa with good barrels and loads, so these people introduced reliability issues by trying to improve something that already had millions of rounds in testing.

Same deal on bolts. I don't know anyone that's had a bolt problem and I've been shooting Grendel longer than most. Bill Alexander once told me heat treat is especially critical in grendel bolts and there is very little margin for error. This is due to the higher bolt thrust combined with a little less meat around the bolt head and lugs.

He believes there was a batch of bolts that got out early with substandard heat treat. But in any case it just has not been an issue lately, even with inexpensive toolcraft bolts.

In the Grendel world the biggest constraint is viewed at the magwell length, not width. Grendel is capable of more performance with longer overall length, especially with heavier bullets. Thus the popularity of some of the bolt guns in Grendel.

I really don't have any interest in 6 mm ARC... But don't wish it ill will. I also believe there's about zero chance of it (or Grendel or SPC) replacing 556 in the mainstream military anytime soon.

That does not mean it doesn't have some small advantages in special units just like grendel would, but that those advantages do not translate well to the broader military. My understanding is the biggest issue for light troops is the weight for capacity trade off. You essentially have to carry an extra mag to have the same combat loading. That and the huge logistical issues with ammunition and mag supply chain.

My view as a very experienced grendel shooter is that you should evaluate the 6mm cartridge based on its capabilities. If it's good, mag and bolt issues will do nothing but get better and they are already fine.

[maximus83]

There is only so much you can do within the limitations of the AR-15 magwell. A slightly larger intermediate rifle and magwell would allow a magazine designed without any compromises.

Yep, except for weight, recoil, and capacity.

[FlyingHunter]

I can't speak to the new cartridge, but it's a bit funny listening to you guys talk as if mags don't work for Grendel. Multiple grendels in my circle of family and friends. None of us have issues with mags. It's just a non-issue. And most of us have been shooting Grendel since ~2007 or before.

Alexander arms has huge amounts of testing full auto with Grendel. Brass and steel case. Other than some very early 2007 time frame C products magazines with out of spec feedlips it's just not been an issue.

I love the elander magazines though the ASC and c products ones are fine.

I even shoot using pmags on the bench because for five rounds or less there's absolutely no issue. They start getting flaky around 10 rounds. This is because the thicker wall of the magazines presents the rounds from stacking correctly.

There are a couple of constraints:

1) there is just flat out not enough room due to the magwell width for polymer mags and their thicker walls. Likewise aluminum can't be used... as they have to have deeper ridges in the walls for strength and there's not enough room for that. But stainless mags are fine.

2) if you want to keep the same curve as 556 30 rounders you are limited to 25-27 rounds.

So you are looking at capacity differences for a standard loadout of 6+1 mags (or whatever), and a few ounces more weight for stainless versus aluminum.

One last thing: a lot of non-AR bench shooters gave Grendel a try early on due to its inherent accuracy. And in doing so many would order high dollar barrels with custom chambers and have a non-AR smith buildup or rifle for them. Along the way they sprinkled lots of pixie dust on it like tight Chambers and similar.

Two primary examples: going with a non-standard tighter throat, and going with a tighter neck.

So a lot of people who complained about Grendel early on were essentially trying to apply bolt gun accuracy methods to what we would call franken builds.

"I can do it better" experimental frankenbuilds... typical AR recipe for disaster that we see even in this forum.

The SAAMI chamber and throat are capable of 0.5 moa with good barrels and loads, so these people introduced reliability issues by trying to improve something that already had millions of rounds in testing.

Same deal on bolts. I don't know anyone that's had a bolt problem and I've been shooting Grendel longer than most. Bill Alexander once told me heat treat is especially critical in grendel bolts and there is very little margin for error. This is due to the higher bolt thrust combined with a little less meat around the bolt head and lugs.

He believes there was a batch of bolts that got out early with substandard heat treat. But in any case it just has not been an issue lately, even with inexpensive toolcraft bolts.

In the Grendel world the biggest constraint is viewed at the magwell length, not width. Grendel is capable of more performance with longer overall length, especially with heavier bullets. Thus the popularity of some of the bolt guns in Grendel.

I really don't have any interest in 6 mm ARC... But don't wish it ill will. I also believe there's about zero chance of it (or Grendel or SPC) replacing 556 in the mainstream military anytime soon.

That does not mean it doesn't have some small advantages in special units just like grendel would, but that those advantages do not translate well to the broader military. My understanding is the biggest issue for light troops is the weight for capacity trade off. You essentially have to carry an extra mag to have the same combat loading. That and the huge logistical issues with ammunition and mag supply chain.

My view as a very experienced grendel shooter is that you should evaluate the 6mm cartridge based on its capabilities. If it's good, mag and bolt issues will do nothing but get better and they are already fine.

This post is an excellent example of M4c quality. Nice contribution.

[1168]

My point about the CMMG thing is that the system should allow slightly larger cartridges to work at higher pressure than a hogged out AR15 bolt would allow. Not necessarily talking about anything specific to the Grendel or ARC. What I’d like to see it do would be to take something that looks like slightly larger AR mags, instead of AK mags, and launches something that looks like a slightly longer 6.5mm Grendel in the area of ~2.5” oal, and a max pressure of greater than 52,000 psi.

Something that looks like halfway ish between an AR15 with a ~5.5mm projectile and an AR10 with a ~7.5mm projectile. Because it would make for some interesting hunting and target rifles. Not for any tactical interest.

I know, its a little nutty and def off-topic.

I’m not knocking Grendel. I’m a convert, actually. And I might try the ARC in a couple years.

I can't speak to the new cartridge, but it's a bit funny listening to you guys talk as if mags don't work for Grendel. Multiple grendels in my circle of family and friends. None of us have issues with mags. It's just a non-issue. And most of us have been shooting Grendel since ~2007 or before.

Alexander arms has huge amounts of testing full auto with Grendel. Brass and steel case. Other than some very early 2007 time frame C products magazines with out of spec feedlips it's just not been an issue.

I love the elander magazines though the ASC and c products ones are fine.

I even shoot using pmags on the bench because for five rounds or less there's absolutely no issue. They start getting flaky around 10 rounds. This is because the thicker wall of the magazines presents the rounds from stacking correctly.

There are a couple of constraints:

1) there is just flat out not enough room due to the magwell width for polymer mags and their thicker walls. Likewise aluminum can't be used... as they have to have deeper ridges in the walls for strength and there's not enough room for that. But stainless mags are fine.

2) if you want to keep the same curve as 556 30 rounders you are limited to 25-27 rounds.

So you are looking at capacity differences for a standard loadout of 6+1 mags (or whatever), and a few ounces more weight for stainless versus aluminum.

One last thing: a lot of non-AR bench shooters gave Grendel a try early on due to its inherent accuracy. And in doing so many would order high dollar barrels with custom chambers and have a non-AR smith buildup or rifle for them. Along the way they sprinkled lots of pixie dust on it like tight Chambers and similar.

Two primary examples: going with a non-standard tighter throat, and going with a tighter neck.

So a lot of people who complained about Grendel early on were essentially trying to apply bolt gun accuracy methods to what we would call franken builds.

"I can do it better" experimental frankenbuilds... typical AR recipe for disaster that we see even in this forum.

The SAAMI chamber and throat are capable of 0.5 moa with good barrels and loads, so these people introduced reliability issues by trying to improve something that already had millions of rounds in testing.

Same deal on bolts. I don't know anyone that's had a bolt problem and I've been shooting Grendel longer than most. Bill Alexander once told me heat treat is especially critical in grendel bolts and there is very little margin for error. This is due to the higher bolt thrust combined with a little less meat around the bolt head and lugs.

He believes there was a batch of bolts that got out early with substandard heat treat. But in any case it just has not been an issue lately, even with inexpensive toolcraft bolts.

In the Grendel world the biggest constraint is viewed at the magwell length, not width. Grendel is capable of more performance with longer overall length, especially with heavier bullets. Thus the popularity of some of the bolt guns in Grendel.

I really don't have any interest in 6 mm ARC... But don't wish it ill will. I also believe there's about zero chance of it (or Grendel or SPC) replacing 556 in the mainstream military anytime soon.

That does not mean it doesn't have some small advantages in special units just like grendel would, but that those advantages do not translate well to the broader military. My understanding is the biggest issue for light troops is the weight for capacity trade off. You essentially have to carry an extra mag to have the same combat loading. That and the huge logistical issues with ammunition and mag supply chain.

My view as a very experienced grendel shooter is that you should evaluate the 6mm cartridge based on its capabilities. If it's good, mag and bolt issues will do nothing but get better and they are already fine.