6mm ARC: Has Hornady Struck Gold?

[markm]

I’m cautiously excited about it. I like the idea of sending 108gr bullets out to 1200 yards on an AR15 platform. But, we’ll see if it proves reliable.

I'm MASSIVELY skeptical. After months and months of dicking around with 6.5 CM, and it's HIT and mostly MISS performance beyond 1000 yards, going even lighter on another gimmick round doesn't even spark is tiny bit of interest.

Most people (NOT EVERYONE) don't get to shoot 1000 plus yards, or even 500 very often, but will buy into a magic round that they'll never get to experience the shortfalls.

We shot Valkerie a couple of weekends too. It was so unimpressive, I don't even remember enough to bash it.

[yellowfin]

For a lot of people it doesn't make sense. As you point out correctly, most people just don't shoot very far very often. If every range you go to maxes out at 300 or 400 yards, which is a lot of places, it absolutely doesn't do anything that heavy 5.56 doesn't do cheaper and easier. Same thing with 6.5CM, doesn't do anything that .308 doesn't until you get past a distance that most people won't ever see.

Who MIGHT this work for:

1. PRS and DMR shooters. They say that right off the bat. It's what I want it for and there's a bunch of us. Can't put a number on how many there are in the genre but it's more than a handful.
2. Varminters wanting a heavier than .223 option in a gas gun who want another mass market option (i.e. not wildcat/boutique shops that could be gone in a week) besides 6.5G. Dunno how many people that is.
3. Hunters who want something bigger than .224 diameter because the laws in their state require it (quite a few specify minimum caliber) and want better trajectory than 6.8 or 6.5G out of standard length barrels.

Yes there are jackwagons who like to buy something to say they have something high performance and they punch paper at 100 and keep it in the safe 95% of the year--see for reference .338 Lapua and .50 BMG. It's like the spoiled millionaire assholes who buy a new Corvette (or higher) and drive it 35-55mph and keep it in the garage most of the time.

[jethroUSMC]

Like many, I'm hopeful and will wait and see. Not worried about mags, PRI 6.8 mags never gave me a prob when I had my Grendel. Elanders worked fine too. Never had an opportunity to try Barrett.

I'm more hopeful that Proof increases a longer CB wrapped barrel offering currently only 16 & 18". I want a 20 or 22" Carbon to keep weight down and velocity up with a Rifle +2 or CAMGAS. It could be in the works - I supposed I could ask them.

[jethroUSMC]

I'm MASSIVELY skeptical. After months and months of dicking around with 6.5 CM, and it's HIT and mostly MISS performance beyond 1000 yards, going even lighter on another gimmick round doesn't even spark is tiny bit of interest.

Most people (NOT EVERYONE) don't get to shoot 1000 plus yards, or even 500 very often, but will buy into a magic round that they'll never get to experience the shortfalls.

We shot Valkerie a couple of weekends too. It was so unimpressive, I don't even remember enough to bash it.

Mark

Definitely agree with your points RE: the latest marketing/whiz-bang gimmick round. I preferred 6 Creed to the 6.5. There are pros and cons. I also preferred 6x47L to 6.5 by 4.7L when going long - not hunting. Spotting splash on steel with a 6 vs. 6.5 is a little more of a challenge, but seems to have been working fine. If I were using any of those rifles for medium to heavier game I'd go to a 6.5 or 7mm projectile for sure.

On the other hand this allows another caliber option for AR-15 for those that want to hunt with the AR-15 platform vs AR-10, and for those states that don't allow .22 cal for hunting. Again to your point - not going to make a big difference beyond 3-400 yds for most folks, and the 6.8 and Grendel do fine for that as well.

[jethroUSMC]

To the original question of the thread - A DOD project design - doesn't necessarily determine commercial success. Historically this the first time a DOD selected cartridge has been introduced to the commercial civilian market - it's usually the other way around for adoption of a new cartridge. I think the round has potential, but only time will tell.

[B Cart]

For a lot of people it doesn't make sense.

Who MIGHT this work for:

1. PRS and DMR shooters. They say that right off the bat. It's what I want it for and there's a bunch of us. Can't put a number on how many there are in the genre but it's more than a handful.
2. Varminters wanting a heavier than .223 option in a gas gun who want another mass market option (i.e. not wildcat/boutique shops that could be gone in a week) besides 6.5G. Dunno how many people that is.
3. Hunters who want something bigger than .224 diameter because the laws in their state require it (quite a few specify minimum caliber) and want better trajectory than 6.8 or 6.5G out of standard length barrels.

Things I can see it has over the .224: probably better barrel life with the bigger diameter, more useful bullets available in the higher BC range (.224 exist but they're few and new vs. 6mm having done this for decades), probably wider range of powders that will work with it, resize 6.5G or 7.62x39 brass if you want to or need to, and a 6mm bullet is simply better thought of than anything in .224 diameter when zapping deer or hogs.

Quite honestly the .224 should have been 6mm too and the minute it came out I said so. I think Hornady is looking to do with this what they did with the 6.5CM vs. the already existing .260: trim it back a touch and bring a lot of friends along in the industry with them to popularize the hell out of it.

Good points Yellowfin, and i hope it lives up to the hype. I got into shooting PRS matches (locally and nationally), back in 2013, and went from .308 to .260, to 6.5 creed, to 6x47 Lapua, and then to 6 Creed, so I definitely really like and understand the benefits of 6mm. I don't think i'll sell my .224 Valkyrie gas gun anytime soon, as mine shoots very tight groups at distance, but i mainly only use it for shooting steel and coyote hunting.

I hope the 6mm ARC is reliable, and i'm sure they'll sell a bunch of them.

[Tx_Aggie]

I'm pretty much where Yellowfin is on this one.

I've been wanting a gas gun to play around with for PRS/DMR matches. This definitely checks those boxes, without the need to mess with either a large frame AR or with one of the Grendel based 6mm wild cats. It'll shoot the same bullets I currently use in my BR and 6mm Dasher, possibly even the same powder, and with Hornady behind it I'll have the option of decent quality factory ammo at around $1/rd. Hornady dies are good enough to start out, and I'm sure higher end die sets will follow (I've heard Forster will be making dies).

It may end up being a niche cartridge, but it's a niche I'm firmly in the middle of. And I'd be willing to bet it won't have the teething issues that 224 Valkryie had out of the gate. Especially if DOD is has actually been using rifles chambered in 6mm ARC for a while now.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

I tend to be very skeptical about these "next big thing" rounds. I started buying guns at the point 6.8SPC and 6.5 Grendel were starting to get big and I remember all the hoopla about .300 BLK. Now the flavor of the month is 6.5 Creedmore For the most part, I don't see the point of these. If I want lightweight, 5.56 does it, if I want power, .308/7.62 NATO tickles my fancy.

6.5 Creed is a bit more than a flash in the pan...

Looks interesting. Was thinking of a Valk, but this looks a bit better.

[pointblank4445]

6.5 Creed is a bit more than a flash in the pan...

Looks interesting. Was thinking of a Valk, but this looks a bit better.

Pretty much when anybody starts in on the Creedmoor and refers to it as "Creedmore"....turn it to "OFF" and move on. Can't believe people still think it's a flash in the pan. I love 6.5mm, am always late to the party because I worry about logistics, and plain wanted to hate it... now I stock/shoot it 4:1 compared to 308.

The problem with the 6mm ARC WILL be:
- Reliable bolts (LMT discontinued theirs and even the beloved JP's give out under moderate pressures, and people are gonna want to push the ARC)
- Mags. Having to do filing/fitting/tweaking for a mag is stupid. We live in an age of uber-reliable guns, leave that crap to the wildcatter weirdos. There's going to have to be an easy, reliable (Magpulese...but polymer isn't ideal here) option...and as far as I can tell, there isn't one yet despite the "mine works for me" hobbyists that have "100 flawless rounds".

The 6mm ARC should exist in something where it isn't shoehorned into the AR15. It should have a beefier bolt and better mags than anything the AR15 footprint can provide.
Something like the a SCAR 16 or HK433 type profile has a better chance of being a good host for the layout. SCAR 20 that rifle up (because Euro "sniper" variants where the only change is a proboscis barrel are lame) for real precision work and now we're cookin!

On paper, I see it as the LE DMR round, that's desperately needed in the SWAT world. Scoped AR's are the order of the day and good large-frame guns are too expensive in many respects. The Mk12/SPR/RECCE is nice but when bullets encounter intermediate barriers, few if any can perform well enough and be trusted to make consistent cold bore requirements, and the accurate stuff sucks big time for barriers. 6mm is a good size for an intermediate-intermediate cartridge that can both perform accurately, at distance, and still have some mass to actually do work where 5.56 can not. That's only theoretical though.

Smart move would be to wait 12-18 months. See if its dying like the 224 Valk or still strong. One thing you can say about Hornady...they know how to roll out a round and generate "demand" for it. If anyone can give it a shot at life, they can. When Berger, Lapua, and a few more names get on board...that's a sign it's thriving.

[caporider]

Pretty much when anybody starts in on the Creedmoor and refers to it as "Creedmore"....turn it to "OFF" and move on. Can't believe people still think it's a flash in the pan. I love 6.5mm, am always late to the party because I worry about logistics, and plain wanted to hate it... now I stock/shoot it 4:1 compared to 308.

The problem with the 6mm ARC WILL be:
- Reliable bolts (LMT discontinued theirs and even the beloved JP's give out under moderate pressures, and people are gonna want to push the ARC)
- Mags. Having to do filing/fitting/tweaking for a mag is stupid. We live in an age of uber-reliable guns, leave that crap to the wildcatter weirdos. There's going to have to be an easy, reliable (Magpulese...but polymer isn't ideal here) option...and as far as I can tell, there isn't one yet despite the "mine works for me" hobbyists that have "100 flawless rounds".

The 6mm ARC should exist in something where it isn't shoehorned into the AR15. It should have a beefier bolt and better mags than anything the AR15 footprint can provide.
Something like the a SCAR 16 or HK433 type profile has a better chance of being a good host for the layout. SCAR 20 that rifle up (because Euro "sniper" variants where the only change is a proboscis barrel are lame) for real precision work and now we're cookin!

On paper, I see it as the LE DMR round, that's desperately needed in the SWAT world. Scoped AR's are the order of the day and good large-frame guns are too expensive in many respects. The Mk12/SPR/RECCE is nice but when bullets encounter intermediate barriers, few if any can perform well enough and be trusted to make consistent cold bore requirements, and the accurate stuff sucks big time for barriers. 6mm is a good size for an intermediate-intermediate cartridge that can both perform accurately, at distance, and still have some mass to actually do work where 5.56 can not. That's only theoretical though.

Smart move would be to wait 12-18 months. See if its dying like the 224 Valk or still strong. One thing you can say about Hornady...they know how to roll out a round and generate "demand" for it. If anyone can give it a shot at life, they can. When Berger, Lapua, and a few more names get on board...that's a sign it's thriving.

CMMG MKW in 6ARC if you want a stronger bolt. Hopefully CMMG opens the magwell back up to the original 7.62x39 size so someone can have room to make a reliable polymer mag.

I should clarify you’d need to put a 6ARC barrel on the 6.5 Grendel MKW.