Defunding the Police and the War on Cops

[Alpha-17]

So, to ask what is more than likely a stupid question..what does "defund the police" actually mean?
Does it mean-NO local, state or federal money for a police force? No police at all?
Are they actually calling for our society to not have police? Or am I missing/not understanding the term "defund"?

I think it's intentionally vague, and that works to the advantage of both sides. Nobody has to provide honest options, and it sounds good. "Yeah, take them Pig's money away!" and "Oh no, they're trying to shut down every police department across the nation!" It helps rile up the base, which is all both sides of any issue care about doing any more.

Honestly, defunding police departments makes absolute sense. Yank federal funding for MRAPs and automatic weapons. Pull back funds used to support and justify no-knock raids, and the militarization of law enforcement in general. Hell, even funds that go to replacing vehicles every few years can be yanked, as they might encourage more foot patrols than cruising around.

Of course, the further the pendulum swings in one direction, the further it will swing back. The prevailing thought would be "Democracy didn't work, anarchy didn't work...dictatorship maybe??"

We're already seeing that to a certain extent. The lengths people have gone to justify police abuses of power or made calls for police to be "let off the leash" to "tame the animals" (quotes from oh so wonderful FB conversations) indicates that people would love nothing more than to see some dictatorial powers, at least for their side.

[jsbhike]

I think it's intentionally vague, and that works to the advantage of both sides. Nobody has to provide honest options, and it sounds good. "Yeah, take them Pig's money away!" and "Oh no, they're trying to shut down every police department across the nation!" It helps rile up the base, which is all both sides of any issue care about doing any more.

Honestly, defunding police departments makes absolute sense. Yank federal funding for MRAPs and automatic weapons. Pull back funds used to support and justify no-knock raids, and the militarization of law enforcement in general. Hell, even funds that go to replacing vehicles every few years can be yanked, as they might encourage more foot patrols than cruising around.



We're already seeing that to a certain extent. The lengths people have gone to justify police abuses of power or made calls for police to be "let off the leash" to "tame the animals" (quotes from oh so wonderful FB conversations) indicates that people would love nothing more than to see some dictatorial powers, at least for their side.

That's pretty well my take on it. Ditch victimless crimes (war on drugs and it's incestuous relation with the war on the 2nd Amendment and Constitution in general) and focus on actual crime where a person or their property is damaged.

With creative terminology, "defunding" could actually be a windfall.

[Esq.]

Of course, the further the pendulum swings in one direction, the further it will swing back. The prevailing thought would be "Democracy didn't work, anarchy didn't work...dictatorship maybe??"

Cycles of history. Hard times make hard men. Hard men make good times. Good times make soft men. Lather, rinse, repeat ad infinitum...

[yoni]

I just want to point out to everyone here that cries about the militarization of the police. The facts support better training and better equipment has reduced police shooting in the last 20 or so years I have hear the figure is 75% less police shootings.

[TMS951]

We wouldn’t need the police nearly to the extent that we do if it wasn’t for enforcing stupid laws that shouldn’t exist.

I’ll all for cutting the numbers of laws in half and cutting down the police to match.

I’m 37 years old. In my experience the Police have not been there for me in my life. Robbed?, house broken into? No help, they take a half assed report, poke around and shrug thier shoulders. Other the one time when the officer told me he knew who the four individuals were, they were under 18 and there was nothing he could/would do.

Meanwhile I watch criminality around all the time. Drugs sold on street corners, Bums begging at every corner, graffiti all over the city. These are things I want stopped and they are not.

I have been pulled over and given speeding tickets plenty in my life. The most they have done is cost me money for speeding in zones that are outrageously low marked limits, almost like they want though to speed so they can ticket you.

So I can do with out the Police. I can especially do with out the militariazation of the police. Until I feel like police actually act in my best interest and make my world more enjoyable to be in I am certainly not a ‘back the blue’ type. To me cops are just people, and like people, some are good some are not. They work a job they picked, it was their choice, don’t like it? become a firefighter.

Oh, and don’t even get me started on the fact they get to ‘investigate themselves’ if you don’t think that little system is rife with room for abuse you’re not paying attention.

[yoni]

Blaming the police for bums on the streets, makes no sense to me. Blame the politicians.

Blame the system that politicians created that turned burglary into a nothing crime.

Blame yourself for allowing it to happen.

A man went to his Rabbi, and complained about hoe G-D wasn't fair, his house was so small, his wife and kids were making him crazy. The Rabbi thought about and told the man to bring his cow and his goats into the house. The man did so, about a week later they ran into each other. The Rabbi told him to remove the animals from his house. A week later, the rabbi called the man to meet him. The Rabbi asked so how is your house? The man replied he now loves his house with no animals inside.

Go live in Africa for a month. Don't rent a hotel room in a nice hotel. Rent a house in a normal middle class neighborhood. Then talk to me about American police when you get home to the USA.

[Alpha-17]

Go live in Africa for a month.

Yeah, I've been there. I've also lived for several months in middle-class Port-au-Prince, Haiti, where we actively had to protect citizens from police. They're shitholes, no doubt. That doesn't really help your case, though. The US was supposed to be the "city on a hill" the shining light of freedom and civil liberties, not "well, we're better than the worst places on Earth, so eh, good enough." Just because other places have it worse doesn't mean we shouldn't address the problems we do have.

[Todd.K]

That's pretty well my take on it. Ditch victimless crimes (war on drugs and it's incestuous relation with the war on the 2nd Amendment and Constitution in general) and focus on actual crime where a person or their property is damaged.

Good thing drug users don't commit a whole bunch of property crimes to fund their habit...

[Averageman]

That's pretty well my take on it. Ditch victimless crimes (war on drugs and it's incestuous relation with the war on the 2nd Amendment and Constitution in general) and focus on actual crime where a person or their property is damaged.

With creative terminology, "defunding" could actually be a windfall.

Here is my take on that; People get the Police force they want via the Politicians they vote for and the general hue and cry from the Citizens.
We have a neighbor web site, One recent gem was "My neighbor is shooting off Fireworks at 8:45 pm, Should I call the Cops?
People are jerks, but they don't want to be a jerk in person so they send the Cops over to "Fix you right up." They make the problem worse, by not stepping up themselves and asking politely, they rat you out anonymously and kind of hope you end up tazed and in the drunk tank.
Cops suck because People and Politicians suck.
Cops aren't writing the laws or calling the mayor over some measly thing or another. They've usually got enough to do without playing the ticket game around here.
But all it takes if one F'ed up Cop and we want to burn down the system?

[jsbhike]

Good thing drug users don't commit a whole bunch of property crimes to fund their habit...

The theft of property in those instances is the issue, not what they are doing with the proceeds.

The war on drugs has been going on for decades now with nothing approaching a positive to show for it.

Just off the top of my head:

1) like alcohol prohibition it breeds official corruption deciding winners and losers in the game and the lucrative aspect of illicit goods has given us super criminals then and now.

2) the war on the 2nd Amendment(and other rights) are inextricably linked. Giving the news a sound bite about gun used in crime is not helping us in addition to the legislation resulting from it to keep the game going.

3) the forbidden is appealing. Non gun owners often become gun owners when the powers that be start talking bans. It may not be a huge segment of society, but there is a typical human nature reason to think that ending prohibition would negate the appeal for some.