Trump vs the U.S. Military

[Ironman8]

It can be two things at once. It can be a deeply held belief that Trump is wrong to consider civil disobedience as a threat to our nation, while recognizing that Joe Biden would be more amenable to the military industrial complex than Trump.

Trump has a golden opportunity presented to him on a platter with these troubles, and he sent it back to the kitchen like it was a steak not charred into a hockey puck. He has foolishly squandered an opportunity that could've ensured him a win in November. Now he'll have to fight for it and those of us who value ALL of the Constitution, will have to hold our noses if we vote for him.

I’ve seen this said elsewhere and I have to ask, what should/could he have done, that he didn’t? And what didn’t he do that he should have?

I’m not baiting, truly want to know cause I haven’t really been keeping up with his actions during all of this. My understanding is that he was giving the governors of each state a long leash to handle their business and only recently said he would send in troops otherwise (And I don’t like the idea of that to be honest...just too many ways for that to go south and blow back on Trump)

[glocktogo]

I’ve seen this said elsewhere and I have to ask, what should/could he have done, that he didn’t? And what didn’t he do that he should have?

I’m not baiting, truly want to know cause I haven’t really been keeping up with his actions during all of this. My understanding is that he was giving the governors of each state a long leash to handle their business and only recently said he would send in troops otherwise (And I don’t like the idea of that to be honest...just too many ways for that to go south and blow back on Trump)

It's really three missteps in combination that squandered his advantage, perhaps four if you count the overall net loss.

First, this is primarily a BLM movement, which is at it's core a leftist/communist movement. It's being funded by Soros, JayZ, Zuckerberg, and so on. Soros funds both BLM and Antifa, so Antifa is acting in a support role here. Yet the totality of it is primarily inner city minorities, rebelling against the leadership on mostly liberal controlled turf. You're pissed at the popo? Well who actually controls them? Democrat mayors, city counselors and appointed agency chiefs.

So what does Trump do? Goes on the offensive against Antifa. That in and of itself isn't a bad thing, but it's lower on the priority target list right now. Moderate undecideds don't even have Antifa on their radar and the ones who do would never vote for Biden. Every day he should've been pointing out that he sees and understands their frustrations, and make it a point to remind them that THEIR city leaders that they have been electing for decades are the ones responsible for trampling their rights. Trump doesn't control city PD's. That doesn't alienate any of his core constituency because they agree.


Second, I recognize that most Trump voters are knee jerk thin blue line supporters, but over the past decade or so the leftists who control blue zones have been openly weaponizing them against gun owners, who are also Trump supporters most of the time. Duncan Lemp came before Breonna Taylor and George Floyd, so where's the outpouring of support to hold his killers accountable? Well he was white and no one but the police took any video, so too bad, so sad for him right? But we know it stinks to high heaven. You don't have to be clairvoyant to see the holes in that debacle.

I'm not aware of anyone who disagrees with the idea of police accountability to the citizenry they police, except police who don't want to be held accountable to the citizenry they police. Left, right, center, accountability is something perpetually lacking with ALL government, including LE. Trump could've picked up significant support across the board by mobilizing DoJ and sending them in to examine these troubled PD's WHILE making a big production of it. He could've established a working group of well known and regarded leaders in both policing and community relations, to come up with best practice guidelines through BJA to push out nationwide reforms in use of force policies. He should've also worked with governors to push legislation on reforming UoF reviews that promote accountability where it counts, the communities.

Nah, he went after George Floyd's character. Yes Floyd was a criminal, but that's irrelevant to the core complaint which is UNNECESSARY UoF. All those black voters who considered voting for him after Biden got into a beef with Charlamagne Tha God over plantation voting? Yeah, he just lost them. BIG opportunity squandered. Why not just say that government has no right to use unnecessary, excessive force on it's citizens and that has to change? No one has to support Floyd's criminality to afford him basic human decency.


Finally, WTF was he thinking when he decided it was a good idea to suggest using the Insurrection Act against civil rights protesters? FOR them? Sure. Overall the NG units have been less violent and more supportive of the people than the police. Yes there's been violence and damage, and that's unacceptable. But there are now hundreds of videos online showing unnecessary UoF against protesters not being violent. In many jurisdictions there hasn't been violence and destruction, and it's important to see, show and understand the difference. Simply saying you're going to come in and quell dissent over the objections of governors and mayors is foolish.

I'm not suggesting I have all the answers because I don't. But even a blind man could see this is hurting Trump when it shouldn't. The critical issue these many millions of citizens are marching for have nothing to do with Republican leadership. Improper use of police to enforce unconstitutional policies, in exchange for defacto absolute immunity to their enforcers is a problem that affects everyone, from all walks of life. On this one we should unite, not further the divide.

[sgtrock82]

Understood, but that was not really what I was referring to. The Guvnah of Arkansas owned the National Guard in his state, unless they were federalized and came under the control of the DOD. At that point, they report up to the President and are paid out of a different bucket o' cash.

Ike deliberately bypassed him and sent not just Regular Army, but members of an Airborne Division. I know you are intimately familair with their role in the ETO, you have studied history as much or more than I have.

Sending the 101st was a very deliberate message, which was received by people who had either seen or heard of their deeds in Europe. It was not an accident.

Not ragging on ya at all, just expanding on it for our viewers at home.

IIRC was not the guvnah of Arkansas planning to use his NG to block the black students from attending school. He didnt just send the 101st, Eisenhower federalized and stood down the Arkansas NG.

Maybe I missed something but I saw Trump mention of using military forces as analogous to a mother threatening to clean a childs room if they refused to it themselves. In this case, as most* the child cleaned their room and no real action was necessary.




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[BoringGuy45]

Trump's biggest problem is that he is tactless and impetuous. He can't stand criticism and goes off on immature rants against anyone who dares take issue with anything he says or does. From a neutral standpoint, none of his policies or actions have been any further right wing in nature than Bush Jr., or even Obama in many cases! It's okay to be unapologetic about the truth, and one should be. But he comes across too much as a loose cannon, whether that's true or not. He was going to take the frothing-at-the-mouth hatred from the left; that was inevitable. During W's administration, the left was claiming we lived in a Christian dictatorship not unlike Taliban, and openly wondered if we wouldn't be better off with Osama bin Laden in the White House...and they meant it. But the moderates and swing voters, the ones who determine the elections, saw through that crap, and they likely would see through all the stuff that the left says about Trump if he had an ounce of tact. Trump's big mouth is why an all but guaranteed reelection has shifted over to him being in very real danger of losing in a landslide to a senile old man.

[kerplode]

I NEVER held out hope OR believed that the majority of cops/LE and/or military would go against unconstitutional orders.
We have TOO MANY precedents as proof. For decades theyve enforced illegal laws, in emergency & non emergency situations. Look at what happened in Katrina- goblins shooting at Med-flight helos, murder/rape/looting as of then unprecedented amounts..they were taking guns from citizens & literally 90 year old women, AFTER body slamming them{see the vid on THAT}.
I never recall them going after the thugs-only the EASY targets, law abiding citizens. They WILL come for your guns when ordered. The military WILL do so too. Very few will refuse or quit.
Ive already seen that the last week or so too. They WILL NOT "have our backs" at all, I believe.

I'm now completely convinced of this as well.

[Honu]

Tucker Carlson said it best the other night

you never hear the left whining complaining about the military any more like they used to cause they took it over they put enough people in place they now have control over it !

the last conservative hold out is the police and you are now seeing the take over control of the police

the military leaders will disobey trump if they need to and then be praised for it by the controlling party

[Whiskey_Bravo]

the military leaders will disobey trump if they need to and then be praised for it by the controlling party

Unfortunately I believe this is correct.

[Honu]

Unfortunately I believe this is correct.

Maybe should have said told to by the controlling left or felt to by their own progressive leftist nature

[HardToHandle]

the military leaders will disobey trump if they need to and then be praised for it by the controlling party

Honestly, there is significant precedent for military leaders, especially appointed Secretaries, to take moral stands. It is a good and right American phenomena.

Today, the Wall Street Journal has a story about Esper standing against Trump using the Insurrection Act. Trump wanted to fire him.
The Insurrection Act is the utter last line of defense. Esper said had the balls to correctly say the MSP situation and some kids marching wasn’t a war. Esper was right, morally and historically.

I think Mattis was right to resign over Syria. He couldn’t support the CinC and he couldn’t execute the policy, so he honorably handled the situation. Strikes me as integrity.

A few years ago, the book Raven Rock revealed that the Nixon Administration senior national security staff were worried about the President’s fitness during the darkest days of Watergate. There was a tacit decision to backstop any nuclear weapon deployment. That sort of agreement might be extra-Constitutional and technically outside the law, but still consistent with American values.

I don’t want an imperial presidency, no matter the man nor party. Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin and others built those type of totalitarian systems.

[SteyrAUG]

Trump's biggest problem is that he is tactless and impetuous. He can't stand criticism and goes off on immature rants against anyone who dares take issue with anything he says or does. From a neutral standpoint, none of his policies or actions have been any further right wing in nature than Bush Jr., or even Obama in many cases! It's okay to be unapologetic about the truth, and one should be. But he comes across too much as a loose cannon, whether that's true or not. He was going to take the frothing-at-the-mouth hatred from the left; that was inevitable. During W's administration, the left was claiming we lived in a Christian dictatorship not unlike Taliban, and openly wondered if we wouldn't be better off with Osama bin Laden in the White House...and they meant it. But the moderates and swing voters, the ones who determine the elections, saw through that crap, and they likely would see through all the stuff that the left says about Trump if he had an ounce of tact. Trump's big mouth is why an all but guaranteed reelection has shifted over to him being in very real danger of losing in a landslide to a senile old man.

Yeah, Trumps biggest problem is an image problem. I try to explain to people that Twitter isn't policy but few people can distinguish between the two. Trump is also deliberately provocative as a negotiating tactic and that doesn't always play well in the MSM who presents shock value statements as stated goals of an administration. It works well for Trump in terms of negotiating a position, but it hurts him in terms of image and credibility.

But for the life of me, with the absolute LUNACY we've all seen from the like of Pelosi and a few others, Trump clearly isn't getting equal consideration. If Trump was a democrat promoting liberal views, nobody would be talking about how his Twitter posts are divisive and childish. AOC has posted some of the most offensive ideas I've ever read and almost nobody calls her out on it. And if you want to talk about divisive, hateful and reprehensible comments just listen to Ilhan Omar for 5 minutes. Suddenly everyone goes silent on that War Against Women topic because she posts some hateful shit when it comes to women's rights.