Trump vs the U.S. Military

[titsonritz]

Trump's biggest problem is that he is tactless and impetuous. He can't stand criticism and goes off on immature rants against anyone who dares take issue with anything he says or does. From a neutral standpoint, none of his policies or actions have been any further right wing in nature than Bush Jr., or even Obama in many cases! It's okay to be unapologetic about the truth, and one should be. But he comes across too much as a loose cannon, whether that's true or not. He was going to take the frothing-at-the-mouth hatred from the left; that was inevitable. During W's administration, the left was claiming we lived in a Christian dictatorship not unlike Taliban, and openly wondered if we wouldn't be better off with Osama bin Laden in the White House...and they meant it. But the moderates and swing voters, the ones who determine the elections, saw through that crap, and they likely would see through all the stuff that the left says about Trump if he had an ounce of tact. Trump's big mouth is why an all but guaranteed reelection has shifted over to him being in very real danger of losing in a landslide to a senile old man.

Yep, spot on, that is exactly Trump's problem and the sad part is (IMO) he can be extremely presidential when he makes effort. It doesn't last long though.

[OH58D]

Trump's faults mentioned in this thread are what you get when you hire a non-politician for President. We wanted an outsider, and we got someone rude, crude and lacking in tact sometimes. And yet Trump has some real qualities that make him connect with the average Joe on the street. Trump rubs the political and military elites the wrong way. He's an aberration who somehow got in, and they can't let that happen again.

I spent 22 years in the Army and I rubbed shoulders with plenty of upper echelon officers , O-7 and above. Met and worked with Schwarzkopf, Powell, Garrison, Ham and others. Brigadier General is the introduction to the political world; O-8 on up and they're entrenched in the political system, and part of it. It' all power and influence, and jousting for that extra Star before retirement. I saw it not only with Army but Air Force brass as well. These are the untouchables who dine with the swells at Georgetown swank eateries, and they rub shoulders with the media elites in those venues.

I retired a few months before my promotion to O-5 (Lieutenant Colonel). I was in the zone and a shoe-in for the rank, and I would have just turned age 40. Retired because my Dad died and I left the military to return to the family ranch and take over the business. Who knows, if I had stayed in longer, maybe I could have been a General too.....? Also, above Captain, in Army aviation you don't get to fly as much. That's why we have Warrant Officers.

[SteyrAUG]

Trump's faults mentioned in this thread are what you get when you hire a non-politician for President. We wanted an outsider, and we got someone rude, crude and lacking in tact sometimes. And yet Trump has some real qualities that make him connect with the average Joe on the street. Trump rubs the political and military elites the wrong way. He's an aberration who somehow got in, and they can't let that happen again.

I don't think we wanted Trump "The Outsider" so much as we didn't want anyone else. I was originally hoping for Rand Paul, who of course didn't stand a chance. Then I was leaning towards Ben Carson, until I discovered he was a little nuts and then it came down to a whole bunch of people I knew I didn't want and one wild card candidate and like many others I'm sure, I took a shot on the unknown because I knew what everyone else would be.

[OH58D]

I don't think we wanted Trump "The Outsider" so much as we didn't want anyone else. I was originally hoping for Rand Paul, who of course didn't stand a chance. Then I was leaning towards Ben Carson, until I discovered he was a little nuts and then it came down to a whole bunch of people I knew I didn't want and one wild card candidate and like many others I'm sure, I took a shot on the unknown because I knew what everyone else would be.

After watching all President Trump has had to face the past 3.5 years, I think he has changed some himself - maybe a little more paranoid and that thick skin has gotten a little more thin. It's been constant political and social warfare, and we have been given a front row seat to watch how the American Left really operates. Instead of operating in the shadows, they've had to move into the light and throw nearly everything they have.

For the American public, it's not that they dislike Trump; it's more they've gotten worn out with all the political strife. The average non-political junkie gets tired of all the fighting and they don't want to hear about it anymore. Sometimes I think people change the administration because they just want the fighting to quit. You see it in some of the general population I have spoken with. It's not my position, but I know it's out there. If Trump loses in November, it will be a mix of voting fraud funny business and a voting public who lost some of their enthusiasm. Some of that loss of enthusiasm can also come from the military elites giving their 2 cents, making the public question the Trump Presidency.

[chuckman]

Honestly, there is significant precedent for military leaders, especially appointed Secretaries, to take moral stands. It is a good and right American phenomena.

Today, the Wall Street Journal has a story about Esper standing against Trump using the Insurrection Act. Trump wanted to fire him.
The Insurrection Act is the utter last line of defense. Esper said had the balls to correctly say the MSP situation and some kids marching wasn’t a war. Esper was right, morally and historically.

I think Mattis was right to resign over Syria. He couldn’t support the CinC and he couldn’t execute the policy, so he honorably handled the situation. Strikes me as integrity.

A few years ago, the book Raven Rock revealed that the Nixon Administration senior national security staff were worried about the President’s fitness during the darkest days of Watergate. There was a tacit decision to backstop any nuclear weapon deployment. That sort of agreement might be extra-Constitutional and technically outside the law, but still consistent with American values.

Bolded/italicized is called "a constitutional crisis." I agree, it's the right thing to do, but some day it's going to be an issue. Regarding Esper, his issue was airing dirty laundry in public. I loathe that. He could have chosen his words more carefully and walked the line, but in my opinion he was pretty insubordinate. I don't have a problem firing him for that.

Trump's faults mentioned in this thread are what you get when you hire a non-politician for President. We wanted an outsider, and we got someone rude, crude and lacking in tact sometimes. And yet Trump has some real qualities that make him connect with the average Joe on the street. Trump rubs the political and military elites the wrong way. He's an aberration who somehow got in, and they can't let that happen again.

I spent 22 years in the Army and I rubbed shoulders with plenty of upper echelon officers , O-7 and above. Met and worked with Schwarzkopf, Powell, Garrison, Ham and others. Brigadier General is the introduction to the political world; O-8 on up and they're entrenched in the political system, and part of it. It' all power and influence, and jousting for that extra Star before retirement. I saw it not only with Army but Air Force brass as well. These are the untouchables who dine with the swells at Georgetown swank eateries, and they rub shoulders with the media elites in those venues.

I retired a few months before my promotion to O-5 (Lieutenant Colonel). I was in the zone and a shoe-in for the rank, and I would have just turned age 40. Retired because my Dad died and I left the military to return to the family ranch and take over the business. Who knows, if I had stayed in longer, maybe I could have been a General too.....? Also, above Captain, in Army aviation you don't get to fly as much. That's why we have Warrant Officers.

Agree re: Trump as a non-politician. Regarding flag rank, when I was an enlisted man, one of my mentors was an 03; after I got my commission, a rear admiral (lower half). I worked on staff for a short time; man, what an eye-opening, educational experience that was, a real look into politics at its' finest and ugliest.

Regarding flying, used to be a program where senior enlisted could go to flight school in the Navy. I met a couple of these "flying chiefs" back in the early-90s. They said it was the best duty ever: all they did was fly. No collateral duties, no leadership roles, just fly.

[OH58D]

Regarding flying, used to be a program where senior enlisted could go to flight school in the Navy. I met a couple of these "flying chiefs" back in the early-90s. They said it was the best duty ever: all they did was fly. No collateral duties, no leadership roles, just fly.

For the Army, most commissioned officers come out of ROTC programs, and they have an average 6-8 year obligation. Officers are managers, and when you hit Captain, and Captain's Career Course, you get shifted from aviation flight time to managerial duties. There's also the factor that a large number of officers leave after their required time. The Army invests a lot of time and money in their aviation program, and the Warrant Officer has more longevity with time in service. The last statistic I read was it is a 6 to 1 ratio in Army aviation of Warrant Officer to Commissioned Officer.

Of my 22 years in the Army, I flew for 18 of those years, and racking up nearly 8,000 hours of flight time. I do miss it.

[chuckman]

For the Army, most commissioned officers come out of ROTC programs, and they have an average 6-8 year obligation. Officers are managers, and when you hit Captain, and Captain's Career Course, you get shifted from aviation flight time to managerial duties. There's also the factor that a large number of officers leave after their required time. The Army invests a lot of time and money in their aviation program, and the Warrant Officer has more longevity with time in service. The last statistic I read was it is a 6 to 1 ratio in Army aviation of Warrant Officer to Commissioned Officer.

Of my 22 years in the Army, I flew for 18 of those years, and racking up nearly 8,000 hours of flight time. I do miss it.

One of my best friends from high school, we saw Top Gun together in 86. He was neither pro- nor anti-military, he never thought of it at all. Until he saw Top Gun. Went to college, AOCS, and flew F-14s. About halfway through 03 (Navy Lieutenant), he got out for the same thing: he was flying less and less, and managing more and more. Then he hopped around the airline industry. I love the WO concept the Army has. So do most Naval pilots.

[1168]

Bolded/italicized is called "a constitutional crisis." I agree, it's the right thing to do, but some day it's going to be an issue. Regarding Esper, his issue was airing dirty laundry in public. I loathe that. He could have chosen his words more carefully and walked the line, but in my opinion he was pretty insubordinate. I don't have a problem firing him for that.




Agree re: Trump as a non-politician. Regarding flag rank, when I was an enlisted man, one of my mentors was an 03; after I got my commission, a rear admiral (lower half). I worked on staff for a short time; man, what an eye-opening, educational experience that was, a real look into politics at its' finest and ugliest.

Regarding flying, used to be a program where senior enlisted could go to flight school in the Navy. I met a couple of these "flying chiefs" back in the early-90s. They said it was the best duty ever: all they did was fly. No collateral duties, no leadership roles, just fly.

I once got a ride from a SCPO that claimed to be the last of that kind.

[Averageman]

After watching all President Trump has had to face the past 3.5 years, I think he has changed some himself - maybe a little more paranoid and that thick skin has gotten a little more thin. It's been constant political and social warfare, and we have been given a front row seat to watch how the American Left really operates. Instead of operating in the shadows, they've had to move into the light and throw nearly everything they have.

For the American public, it's not that they dislike Trump; it's more they've gotten worn out with all the political strife. The average non-political junkie gets tired of all the fighting and they don't want to hear about it anymore. Sometimes I think people change the administration because they just want the fighting to quit. You see it in some of the general population I have spoken with. It's not my position, but I know it's out there. If Trump loses in November, it will be a mix of voting fraud funny business and a voting public who lost some of their enthusiasm. Some of that loss of enthusiasm can also come from the military elites giving their 2 cents, making the public question the Trump Presidency.

Oh how they would have loved to have Mitt Romney.

[26 Inf]

I don't think we wanted Trump "The Outsider" so much as we didn't want anyone else. I was originally hoping for Rand Paul, who of course didn't stand a chance. Then I was leaning towards Ben Carson, until I discovered he was a little nuts and then it came down to a whole bunch of people I knew I didn't want and one wild card candidate and like many others I'm sure, I took a shot on the unknown because I knew what everyone else would be.

The three words: Better than Hilary.