Breonna Tayloris Event re Opened

[Stickman]

The warrant was executed on the correct house. The judge found PC that the house was connected to drug trafficking and there would be evidence of that in the house.

People don’t want to hear that. They want to believe that no knock warrants are given for nothing, and that cops are blasting people once inside for no reason.

On a side note, cops don’t always get a payout when they hit a drug house. To do mission prep, get CIs inside, arrange for buys, create a log, then get a warrant only to find out the crack / meth heads already sold their supply can be humbling. You don’t get a warrant just by telling a judge you think something fishy is inside.

I’ll point out any cop falsifying info on a warrant needs to be in front of a jury, but that isn’t what we are talking about here.

[Stickman]

Qualified immunity should not be a thing when you kill innocent people serving a no knock warrant.

***inflammatory comment removed***

Is that what the standard was when you were kicking doors in LE? Or were you MIL when you were doing it?

[Coal Dragger]

I was mil when I was doing it. Different environment, admittedly with very different ROE’s.

I stand by what I said. No knock warrants should be virtually impossible to obtain and only if lives are in danger. The war on drugs is stupid, it’s always been stupid, and continuing to do stupid shit like the incident here over drugs is a travesty. No knock warrants are no better than home invaders and should be repelled accordingly.

It’s only drugs. Knock on the damn door and clearly identify yourself. This issue of killing innocent people over a drug warrant is not acceptable.

Potentially reducing the risk of evidence being destroyed, and theoretically giving officers a lower risk entry is outweighed by the public being put at risk of death or injury over a non life or death warrant.

[SWATcop556]

Let's keep the comments civil or this one is going to get locked.

[Whiskey_Bravo]

I was mil when I was doing it. Different environment, admittedly with very different ROE’s.

I stand by what I said. No knock warrants should be virtually impossible to obtain and only if lives are in danger. The war on drugs is stupid, it’s always been stupid, and continuing to do stupid shit like the incident here over drugs is a travesty. No knock warrants are no better than home invaders and should be repelled accordingly.

It’s only drugs. Knock on the damn door and clearly identify yourself. This issue of killing innocent people over a drug warrant is not acceptable.

Potentially reducing the risk of evidence being destroyed, and theoretically giving officers a lower risk entry is outweighed by the public being put at risk of death or injury over a non life or death warrant.

Agreed. No knock warrants should be reserved for lives in danger and that is pretty much it. Not wanting a bag of week flushed isn't a good enough reason.

[glocktogo]

The warrant was executed on the correct house. The judge found PC that the house was connected to drug trafficking and there would be evidence of that in the house.

Then why wasn't any found?

Probably because the judge didn't "Find" squat. He took what the narcs said at face value and didn't ask questions. Might as well have a rubber stamp with his signature on it.

Or are you the judge in question and can state otherwise as fact?

People don’t want to hear that. They want to believe that no knock warrants are given for nothing, and that cops are blasting people once inside for no reason.

On a side note, cops don’t always get a payout when they hit a drug house. To do mission prep, get CIs inside, arrange for buys, create a log, then get a warrant only to find out the crack / meth heads already sold their supply can be humbling. You don’t get a warrant just by telling a judge you think something fishy is inside.

I’ll point out any cop falsifying info on a warrant needs to be in front of a jury, but that isn’t what we are talking about here.

So you were there when it happened and can provide more information?


I only ask the above questions because anyone involved shouldn't be talking about it on the internet, and anyone claiming to "know" who wasn't there is operating on hearsay. Beyond that we're all just speculating. Even when all the "facts" come to light (if they ever do), we may still not know the truth of it all.

Regardless, no-knocks inherently carry too much risk to officers and the public to warrant their use on anything but the most heinous and violent criminal subjects. Securing evidence of drug trafficking doesn't even remotely meet that threshold and neither did Breonna Taylor, assuming they don't discover she was an axe murderer or such.

[C-grunt]

Has it been confirmed that it was in fact a no knock warrant? Because I know the media have a track record of mislabeling warrants as "no knock".

I know around here its very rare. Ive never seen one, even on murder and robbery suspects.

[WillBrink]

Then why wasn't any found?

Probably because the judge didn't "Find" squat. He took what the narcs said at face value and didn't ask questions. Might as well have a rubber stamp with his signature on it.

Or are you the judge in question and can state otherwise as fact?



So you were there when it happened and can provide more information?


I only ask the above questions because anyone involved shouldn't be talking about it on the internet, and anyone claiming to "know" who wasn't there is operating on hearsay. Beyond that we're all just speculating. Even when all the "facts" come to light (if they ever do), we may still not know the truth of it all.

Regardless, no-knocks inherently carry too much risk to officers and the public to warrant their use on anything but the most heinous and violent criminal subjects. Securing evidence of drug trafficking doesn't even remotely meet that threshold and neither did Breonna Taylor, assuming they don't discover she was an axe murderer or such.

I think that leads us to how things are supposed to be done, and how they're often actually done in the real world. A buddy of mine from med sized metro SWAT team left because he felt they were being used far too often for no knocks that didn't require a tac team. He felt it was a matter of time until something went south, and left. He felt detectives were being lazy, had no problems getting such warrants when ever they wanted, and handed it to the tac team to deal with.

No doubt it varies from PD to PD and judge to judge and some do it by the book as it's supposed to be, some know which judge to go to who tends to rubber stamp requests, and everything in between.

Ultimately it increases the danger for the LEOs and those on the other end of the no knock and in those rare cases the no knock goes badly, or worse, on the wrong address, is PR nightmare LE does not need.

They need to raise the bar on what justifies a no knock and so do before the LE haters do it for them, or ban them altogether.

[Coal Dragger]

No knock warrants should pretty much be for hostage rescue, human trafficking, or other situation where the lives of the public are in clear danger.

No knocks for drug search warrants, and pretty much everything else should be outright banned. Knock on the door for a minimum set amount of time, announce yourselves, and then serve the warrant. The goal is to protect the public right? So with that in mind, given a presumption of innocence of the subjects of the search, how about we don't break down the door unannounced in the middle of the night and increase the risk to everyone involved? That's a pretty novel concept I know.

I posted elsewhere that the real problem here is that for some reason we learned absolutely nothing from prohibition of alcohol, and are now doing the same thing with drugs and have all the same problems of violence associated with illegal supply chains. Take away the mission of LEO's dealing with drug criminals and how much of this stupid shit even needs to go on? Pretty much none. How much tactical gear and paramilitary organization do the police in most jurisdictions need? Pretty much goes away entirely.

[glocktogo]

I think that leads us to how things are supposed to be done, and how they're often actually done in the real world. A buddy of mine from med sized metro SWAT team left because he felt they were being used far too often for no knocks that didn't require a tac team. He felt it was a matter of time until something went south, and left. He felt detectives were being lazy, had no problems getting such warrants when ever they wanted, and handed it to the tac team to deal with.

No doubt it varies from PD to PD and judge to judge and some do it by the book as it's supposed to be, some know which judge to go to who tends to rubber stamp requests, and everything in between.

Ultimately it increases the danger for the LEOs and those on the other end of the no knock and in those rare cases the no knock goes badly, or worse, on the wrong address, is PR nightmare LE does not need.

They need to raise the bar on what justifies a no knock and so do before the LE haters do it for them, or ban them altogether.

That's my issue. Any time someone tells me how stringent the process is for getting a no-knock warrant I get that tingle on the back of my neck. Kinda like when the FBI tells us how stringent the FISA warrant process is, and then we find out that 302's are falsified and FISA judges are clueless as to the truth. I mean if the "Premier Law Enforcement Agency in the World™" is abusing the process, what exactly is supposed to reassure me that local and state agencies are better?