M855 to be replaced in 2009

[Saginaw79]

They cant surplus the ammo of to us peons, per a Bill Clinton EO

It has to be sent to a proper facility, and demilled, then someone can buy the components and load the cartridge up again

[Savior 6]

No wonder the s**t is so exspensive.

[BushmasterFanBoy]

Any info on terminal performance? Fragmentation out of 14.5" barrels?

Am I also correct in seeing the penetrator is partially external?

[RAM Engineer]

someone on LF questioned the possibility of the exposed steel core wearing out feedramps. I'd like to hear how that is dealt with or if it is a non issue.

[Avenger11]

Before anyone gets excited about surplus M855, consider that we are providing M4 carbines in the thousands to the Iraqi Security Forces. I am confident that all of that military M855 and M856 would never see civilian hands even if it were legal.

[Turnkey11]

They cant surplus the ammo of to us peons, per a Bill Clinton EO

It has to be sent to a proper facility, and demilled, then someone can buy the components and load the cartridge up again

The guy I bought from sold pulled M855 projectiles for $35 per 1000, $40 per 1000 if you want them cleaned of pull marks. By far the cheapest I have found .223 bullets for reloading, anywhere.

[Turnkey11]

Just something else to spend OUR money on. I wish they would just switch to a better round like the 6.8 or 6.5 and give a soldier what his heart really wants, KILLABILITY!

Id be happy with a 62 or 70 gr barnes TSX; Im all about spending money and being environmental about it.

[bernieb90]

I have been doing a bit of research on AP ammo definitions lately.

The Federal definition of AP is:

(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and
which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other
substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass,
bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and
intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25
percent of the total weight of the projectile.

(C) The term `armor piercing ammunition' does not include shotgun shot
required by Federal or State environmental or game regulations for hunting
purposes, a frangible projectile designed for target shooting, a projectile
which the Secretary finds is primarily intended to be used for sporting
purposes, or any other projectile or projectile core which the Secretary
finds is intended to be used for industrial purposes, including a charge
used in an oil and gas well perforating device."

If you note this definition requires that the core be constructed entirely of the offending substance. M855 is therefore not AP because the core is lead with a steel insert. M855 LFS should fall under the same definition.

I am interested in the feedramp issue as well. Are there any updates on this?

[DocGKR]

The new M855 LFS appears to have reasonably good unobstructed soft tissue performance, but like current M855, does very poorly after automobile windshield intermediate barriers. In addition, the new load does not penetrate level III/IV body armor any differently than current M855. Accuracy appears to be somewhat variable, as expected for a bullet using a 3 part construction...

[DocGKR]

The Army has now revealed that M80 FMJ is also going to be replaced with a LFS (Lead Free Slug) version similar to the new M855 LFS. In addition, M856 tracer is going to be redesigned into a LFS version: http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2009infantr...iiGrassano.pdf.

More importantly, Crane (http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2009infantr...ioniii8524.pdf) has now publicly acknowledged the existence of the SOST cartridges, the 5.56 mm 62 gr Mk318 Mod0 OTM and 7.62x51 mm 130 gr Mk319 Mod0 OTM. These are non-bonded versions of the ATK TOTM projectile made for the Marine Corps Barrier Blind RFI, as noted on page 12 of my NDIA briefing from last year (http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2008Intl/Roberts.pdf). The SOST rounds are optimized for relatively short barrel weapons, use heat stable, flash suppressed powder, and offer good terminal performance, with early upset and reasonably good intermediate barrier performance for a non-bonded projectile. The SOST/TOTM is an outstanding, simple, adaptive design--projectiles can be manufactured with a traditional lead core or in a lead-free version, bonded or non-bonded. Chuck Marsh and the folks at Crane deserve a standing ovation for this well designed and implemented project--Bravo Zulu!

Furthermore, Crane has announced the development of two new sniper cartridges, the 7.62 x51 mm Mk316 175 gr OTM and the .300 Win Mag 220 gr Mk248 Mod1. Although the Mk316 uses the same 175 gr SMK as M118LR, it offers better accuracy and consistency for precision shots at long range. Likewise, the enhanced performance of the Mk248 Mod1 reportedly extends the range of existing .300 Win Mag Mk13 Mod5 rifles out to 1500 meters, so new .338 Lap Mag weapons and ammo do not have to be procured at a time of tightening budgets.