US Air Force and the M18

[FightinQ]

Wars no, lives maybe. Why wouldn’t have Glock been the easy button?


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What lives? Show me a modern day gunfight in the mil that the outcome was determined by the secondary. Show me also when people died because their Sigs failed. If you can't, then you are making a straw man argument based on brand tribalism.

Second and since this decision is about the USAF this time, is the sidearm not being a Glock eAsY bUtToN going to make CAS miss an ordinance drop or an aircrew fail at cargo handling? Thankfully they're also getting variants of the M4, making it irrelevant arguing about the secondary to begin with.

Third, the "easy button G19" was not in the M17/18 MHS trails. A variant of it was, and still lost. It's OVER. O-V-E-R. Done, let it go. They are not going to change their minds based on an internet argument that is nothing more than fans mad that their favorite didn't get chosen at all. LET IT GO. You folks are going to have to deal with this and move on.

[MountainRaven]

LOL. You can't lose a competition that's never held.

[FightinQ]

LMAO, then you don't now how contracts are given out then in the mil, because it was already held by another service.

[1168]

My only point about the G19 being an easy button is that it is older and was already in the DoD system. I was issued one before the 320 was a thing. I’m not real emotional about it either way. Its whatever. Logistics wins wars, not handguns.

[FightinQ]

My only point about the G19 being an easy button is that it is older and was already in the DoD system. I was issued one before the 320 was a thing. I’m not real emotional about it either way. Its whatever. Logistics wins wars, not handguns.

In bold I agree. And both the 17 and 18 are already well into the system as far as logistics goes.

I don't think that SOCCOM shares it's budget or equipment with any service that's conventional, usually it's the other way around. When the US Army & USMC both wanted in on the Mk22 action, the US Army ended up being the one footing the bill for everyone.

[mark5pt56]

Throttle it back fella's


I know the procurement system doesn't make sense and folks inject their brand favorites but back off on the argumentative responses.

Sure if I was in charge it would be pick one and get rid of all others, which one, who cares? A G19 across the board or an M18 with grip modules, compact and subcompact, duty relevant.

Heck in my time, we had the 1911, M9, 228, 4" .38 and 2" .38

[USMC_Anglico]

M17/M18 are good to go. Army should have just went with M18 across the board, no discernible benefit to the larger frame size. The reason Glock didn't get adopted was they were over $100 million higher on their bid than Sig and were only slightly better in the technical evaluations. Don't know if Sig is giving away the store to get the contract or not, but it doesn't matter to the end user.

It also wasn't the G19 in the competition, it was the Glock variant with the external frame mounted safety, 19 slide on 17 frame size, so apples vs. oranges.

SOCOM still issues G19s, it remains to be seen if that will change in the future

[WickedWillis]

LMAO, then you don't now how contracts are given out then in the mil, because it was already held by another service.

Sig did undercut everyone for this contract though, that is fact. I can't blame them, it's business and this contract was more vital to them than it was to Glock.

I bet if the M18/M17 was in 40 or 45 the Airforce could shoot 'em faster though...

M17/M18 are good to go. Army should have just went with M18 across the board, no discernible benefit to the larger frame size. The reason Glock didn't get adopted was they were over $100 million higher on their bid than Sig and were only slightly better in the technical evaluations. Don't know if Sig is giving away the store to get the contract or not, but it doesn't matter to the end user.

It also wasn't the G19 in the competition, it was the Glock variant with the external frame mounted safety, 19 slide on 17 frame size, so apples vs. oranges.

SOCOM still issues G19s, it remains to be seen if that will change in the future

Exactly. The M18/M17 does not appear to have any of the same issues the 320 had on the civilian side, and money talks. $100 mil is a significant difference.

It worked out pretty well for Glock though, as the 19x has been a huge seller.

[Grand58742]

Throttle it back fella's


I know the procurement system doesn't make sense and folks inject their brand favorites but back off on the argumentative responses.

So, no arguing that the Hi-Point Yeet Cannon with a duct taped Harbor Freight freebie flashlight should have been the way to go for the USAF?

Heck in my time, we had the 1911, M9, 228, 4" .38 and 2" .38

I remember seeing up to the 2004-05 time frame some Reserve units still having the M15 revolvers on hand.

[FightinQ]

I don't see a problem with what Sig did, Glock has done it too and almost wrote the playbook on how imitation get's customers in to buy, because they want what they see so an so has. The 320 was barely on anyone's radar until they got the contract, and boom, everyone wants one now. Sig learned from Glock so in a way, Glock got outplayed by Glock for all intent and purpose.

Nope, not even mad. Either way they would have went, they would have gotten a handgun that's just as dependable as the other. SGM Mike Glover from Fieldcraft Survival is now in the process of carrying it over the G19, and he's a Glock guy. Kyle Lamb, another Glock guy, is being seen more and more with a 320....in case people wanted to have the appeals to authority inserted for justifications of their arguments. At any rate, USAF got what they wanted, we should at least be happy with that.