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Thread: ASP batons, useful or not?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by tanksoldier View Post
    Civilians don't have a use of force continuum.
    There is force and deadly force, with nothing in between.
    A baton will be considered a deadly force implement no matter how you use it or intend it.
    Quote Originally Posted by tanksoldier View Post
    If you pick up a stick and hit someone with it, it will be charged as assault with a deadly weapon or the equivalent.
    Same if you have a baton in your pocket. It’s no different than using beanbag rounds or rock salt. Both can kill, so if you don’t need to kill someone why are you shooting them? If you need to kill, why are you using rock salt?
    You may convince the DA differently later, or convince a jury, but at the scene that is what the arrest charge sheet will show.
    If you don’t need to defend yourself or another from imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury, don’t use a deadly weapon. If you do, use something better than a stick.
    At best, this info is conditional and subject to variation by jurisdiction.
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  2. #32
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    First off; I didn't read any of this thread.


    At my job in the Force I was required to carry at least 1 less than lethal. I could pick ASP, taser, or OC.

    By the end of my 4 years; you couldn't PAY me to carry anything other than an ASP. OC spray isn't very effective against pissed of dudes like you would want. Taser can have battery issues, or straight up miss. An ASP is full on mid evil reliable and has unlimited ammo and requires no reloads. Even if the ASP fails to deploy, you can still **** up someone. Just deploying it changes peoples mind.


    Great times.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ST911 View Post
    At best, this info is conditional and subject to variation by jurisdiction.
    Things may turn out better, but people need to realize that they may not.

    Hitting someone with a baton, or shooting them, isn't something to be done lightly.
    "I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by tanksoldier View Post
    Things may turn out better, but people need to realize that they may not. Hitting someone with a baton, or shooting them, isn't something to be done lightly.
    Understood, but limiting hyperbole helps. Force is "deadly" and stuff is a "deadly weapon" when it meets the statutory criteria thereof, or it is employed as such.

    You wrote:

    Quote Originally Posted by tanksoldier View Post
    Civilians don't have a use of force continuum.
    There is force and deadly force, with nothing in between.
    A baton will be considered a deadly force implement no matter how you use it or intend it.
    You're melding some concepts and I get what you're saying, but there absolutely is a scale, progression, and continuum of force possibilities for everyone. The concept of objectively reasonable in Graham that you use on the job is found in Branca's self defense pillars of reasonableness and proportionality. (Visit: lawofselfdefense.com)
    2012 National Zumba Endurance Champion
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  5. #35
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    As a private citizen I don't want to touch them with a 10 foot pole. Appearances, terrible. Size to carry, terrible. Use: If you hit the wrong body part it is absolutely lethal force. If you hit the 'right' body part it still may be considered lethal force depending on jurisdiction and your official documented training history. It just seems like a lose-lose-lose

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp View Post
    As a private citizen I don't want to touch them with a 10 foot pole. Appearances, terrible. Size to carry, terrible. Use: If you hit the wrong body part it is absolutely lethal force. If you hit the 'right' body part it still may be considered lethal force depending on jurisdiction and your official documented training history. It just seems like a lose-lose-lose
    What do you feel is the win win option?
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  7. #37
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    I’ve used it for breaking windows and dealing with dogs. Otherwise, it stayed in the pouch.


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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    What do you feel is the win win option?

    Lethal: Firearm
    Non/less: OC, empty hand
    Opening my sweet Amazon packages or defeating child toy packaging: Folding knife

    Though this all goes without saying that as a private citizen, the day (and especially night) are ruled by avoidance, deescalation, and disengagement first and foremost in almost all situations
    Last edited by Warp; 05-03-21 at 19:00.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp View Post
    As a private citizen I don't want to touch them with a 10 foot pole. Appearances, terrible. Size to carry, terrible. Use: If you hit the wrong body part it is absolutely lethal force. If you hit the 'right' body part it still may be considered lethal force depending on jurisdiction and your official documented training history. It just seems like a lose-lose-lose
    I would not want the encounter to be video recorded if I had to use an ASP to defend myself against a subject who is not armed with a knife or firearm. If the attacker is armed with a knife or firearm, the ASP would not be appropriate.
    Last edited by T2C; 05-04-21 at 09:13.
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