Couple in MO being held as 2A heroes...

[Business_Casual]

Weren’t there protesters carrying weapons as well? Also they trespassed - lol is there such thing as aggravated trespass?

[ruckusjuice]

So what crime are they saying was committed?

I don’t believe they’ve been charged with any crimes yet but, from your experience, you already know that warrants are often used to gather evidence prior to any charges. I’m not familiar with MO law and can’t tell you exactly which charges the couple could potentially face. A similar situation in jurisdictions I am more familiar with could result in charges such as reckless endangerment, brandishing, assault/battery in various degrees, etc.

By definition, anything you do in self defense is a crime. Punching someone, choking them out, point or firing guns at them are all illegal. Self defense is an affirmative defense in which the defendant acknowledges they committed the alleged conduct but argues that the conduct was justified based on a reason such as self defense. Because of how politicized this situation and national circumstances are right now, I’m not surprised that the local prosecutor appears to be moving towards bringing the case to a Grand Jury and letting someone else decide if self defense applies.

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Weren’t there protesters carrying weapons as well? Also they trespassed - lol is there such thing as aggravated trespass?

In Tennessee, yes. Fits this discussion perfectly.

39-14-406. Aggravated criminal trespass.

(a) A person commits aggravated criminal trespass who enters or remains on property when:

(1) The person knows the person does not have the property owner's effective consent to do so; and

(2) The person intends, knows, or is reckless about whether such person's presence will cause fear for the safety of another.

[WillBrink]

This IS due process. The police drafted a search and seizure warrant. They took it to a judge. A judge reviewed it and found probable cause that a crime was committed and the property to be seized is evidence of the crime. That’s the foundation of our legal system. Had the police been present at the scene during the events in question, they could have seized the guns there and then. Since the police were collecting evidence after the fact, the appropriate action is to apply for a search and seizure warrant. The video alone is enough for probable cause.

Nothing is stopping the McCloskeys from using other firearms they own for defense or buying new firearms if they wish. The AR and the little handgun are the only firearms sought because they’re the only ones with evidentiary value.

I don't know MO law, but only charge that seems apparent might be brandishing? She was waving that thing around like it was a cell phone or something, and per OP, I found it truly cringeworthy to watch myself.

[Esq.]

I have to strongly disagree. While I do not like much of anything about this couple, they still have the right, in my opinion, to defend themselves and their property. And I support that.

I also oppose unequal application of the law. The rioters and thugs frequently go unpunished, while people who resist lawlessness are "investigated" until they can pin some type crime on them.

So, was this couple supposed to allow their home to be burnt down? Were they supposed to allow themselves to be injured or killed?

Maybe they learned a lesson?

I like the saying, "A republican is a liberal who got mugged."

I have fought these type of scum for my rights my entire life. Im not feeling very magnanimous. The rule as far as im concerned is, you get the same rights you support others having, no more, no less. Choices have consequences.

Their only value to me is to enflame my side and any who might be on the fence who can be reached. Otherwise, i hope the howling mob they fostered tears them limb from limb.

[WillBrink]

I have to strongly disagree. While I do not like much of anything about this couple, they still have the right, in my opinion, to defend themselves and their property. And I support that.

I also oppose unequal application of the law. The rioters and thugs frequently go unpunished, while people who resist lawlessness are "investigated" until they can pin some type crime on them.

So, was this couple supposed to allow their home to be burnt down? Were they supposed to allow themselves to be injured or killed?

Maybe they learned a lesson?

I like the saying, "A republican is a liberal who got mugged."

And we agree on that, and no place did I say they didn't have their 2A Rights. They are however classic hypocrites and should not be held up as 2A gun totin' heroes. They're not on "our" side per se. However, after this experience I suspect they and others probably will be!

I think this event works well for our side, but needs to be viewed and positioned appropriately per other comments in this thread.

2A gun totin' heroes they aint.

[ruckusjuice]

I don't know MO law, but only charge that seems apparent might be brandishing? She was waving that thing around like it was a cell phone or something, and per OP, I found it truly cringeworthy to watch myself.

Again, I’m also unfamiliar with MO statutes but the actions of the couple could be consistent with several different criminal statutes in the jurisdictions I am more familiar with. People really shouldn’t freak out about the seizure of the firearms in this case. It’s not infringing on the McCloskeys’ second amendment rights to any severe degree. They are still allowed to own and use firearms. They just can’t have these two specific guns right now because these two guns are evidence in an investigation.

It would be the same if someone tried to rob you at knifepoint and you shot them, resulting in their death. The police would investigate the case as a homicide, because that’s what the killing of one person by another is. Homicide is generally a crime. Any warrants the police would draft to collect other evidence would cite the crime of homicide or whatever your jurisdiction’s wording of that would be. Your firearm would likely be confiscated because it has evidentiary value in the investigation. At some point in this process, which is your due process, you would be able to raise the affirmative defense of self defense. Maybe the prosecutor would determine that your shooting of the robber was self defense and end things at his/her level. Maybe the prosecutor decides to take it to grand jury based on the legal standards of the jurisdiction. The grand jury would get to decide if your case was self defense. Maybe the grand jury decides that your shooting of the robber was more likely than not a criminal act and you get a true bill of indictment. Then your case goes to trial and a jury gets to decide if your shooting was a criminal homicide or self defense.

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Was the gate seized as evidence?

------

The pair called the St. Louis Police Department shortly before 7:30 p.m. Sunday. They told arriving officers that they had heard a "commotion" and, upon investigating further, “observed a large group of subjects forcefully break an iron gate marked with ‘No Trespassing’ and ‘Private Street' signs,” according to an incident summary provided to Fox News by the department.

[Esq.]

Again, I’m also unfamiliar with MO statutes but the actions of the couple could be consistent with several different criminal statutes in the jurisdictions I am more familiar with. People really shouldn’t freak out about the seizure of the firearms in this case. It’s not infringing on the McCloskeys’ second amendment rights to any severe degree. They are still allowed to own and use firearms. They just can’t have these two specific guns right now because these two guns are evidence in an investigation.

It would be the same if someone tried to rob you at knifepoint and you shot them, resulting in their death. The police would investigate the case as a homicide, because that’s what the killing of one person by another is. Homicide is generally a crime. Any warrants the police would draft to collect other evidence would cite the crime of homicide or whatever your jurisdiction’s wording of that would be. Your firearm would likely be confiscated because it has evidentiary value in the investigation. At some point in this process, which is your due process, you would be able to raise the affirmative defense of self defense. Maybe the prosecutor would determine that your shooting of the robber was self defense and end things at his/her level. Maybe the prosecutor decides to take it to grand jury based on the legal standards of the jurisdiction. The grand jury would get to decide if your case was self defense. Maybe the grand jury decides that your shooting of the robber was more likely than not a criminal act and you get a true bill of indictment. Then your case goes to trial and a jury gets to decide if your shooting was a criminal homicide or self defense.

Oh, I think we all understand "the process" quite well. Thats not the issue here.

The issue is that this is clearly a political message being sent- "Let the Goblins, loot, rape, beat and murder.The police, will do NOTHING to protect you. Your job is to die quietly. If you resist in any way, you WILL be punished".

If people can't see this for what it is, they are F'ing morons.

[Esq.]

Was the gate seized as evidence?

------

The pair called the St. Louis Police Department shortly before 7:30 p.m. Sunday. They told arriving officers that they had heard a "commotion" and, upon investigating further, “observed a large group of subjects forcefully break an iron gate marked with ‘No Trespassing’ and ‘Private Street' signs,” according to an incident summary provided to Fox News by the department.

See my comment above. That is the ONLY explanation that makes sense in this case. Stow your friggen cognitive dissonance before it gets you or someone you care about maimed or killed. This aint 1950 White Bread America folks and you best adjust accordingly.....