Couple in MO being held as 2A heroes...

[Jellybean]

...I am glad the DA picked a pair of wealthy lawyers to falsely prosecute. Why? Because they can afford to fight and to fight is to win. The DA is a fool and the charges are idiotic. St Louis will end up settling with them in the lawsuit that follows and that settlement will pay for both their legal fees and their inconvenience. There is no way a blue collar couple could hope for the same outcome.

Andy

And on that we totally agree.

To me, they are nothing more than a tool to further our agenda . Ive said as much.

And on that, we also totally agree; if you go back and read my first post on this topic, this is propaganda gold for us. I'm not saying we need to throw them a rubber chicken fundraiser hosted by the NRA and just love them to death and promote them as paragons of the 2A, merely piggyback onto the whole unfolding situation.
My gripe is with the subset of people who can't seem to make hay when the field is cut for them, instead they want to endlessly moan about what height the field was cut at.
And yet, we want to fight...

But i dont agree with the "We're all equal" crap line of thinking. You dont get to spend your whole life supporting people who diminish the rights of others and then talk about "My rights, My rights." You get the same rights you are willing to accord others, no more, no less.

A lifelong Communist Party/Black Power/Huey Newton/BLM/Antifa person gets attacked by violent white hooligans while walking to the local 7/11 and shoots a couple of them.
A lifelong NS/White Power/KKK/Skinhead/Neo-nazi person gets attacked by violent black hooligans while walking to the local 7/11 and shoots a couple of them.

Which of those two people will have spent little enough of their lives "supporting people who diminish the rights of others" for you to support their right to self-defense?

If you understand how each of those situations would be played out in the current year, you understand my point about equal rights.
Or as Andy just made the point for me;

First there would be a leftist freak out because the "alt-right militia" is threatening and intimidating the DA, then Soros would dispatch his get-out-of-jail-free SJW Rainbow Brigade to start trouble and film it. Conservatives will be jailed if the lift a finger to defend themselves.
F'it - I can wear a mask and gloves, good luck doxing me, sign me up.

The left sure isn't playing the 'get the same rights you accord to others' game, so do you have a right to protest or not?
Goes back to my comment on the 1A; if we're going to play the same "for we but not for thee" game, then we're essentially admitting their actions/beliefs are right and acceptable.
Overton Window stuff...

For those of you who cant get past the "Everyone has the same rights" let me explain how these folks can best support the Second Amendment.

Two, clear images--pictures worth thousand words blah, blah.

First, them defending their property with an evil black rifle and 100 round clipazine. They are unharmed. Second, disarmed by Liberal politicians....and raped to death by a mob they helped create on the lawn of their burning mansion with 100 million Whirlastar views.

Justice served and clear lesson imparted to the feeble minded...

I suspect we might be a bit more on the same page than it seems, however;

If they got a life-ending dose of their own medicine, I agree it would certainly drive the point home, and I would be making my same point about the value of such propaganda and gleefully doing my part to spread it about, because just like "Warlord Raz" giving out rifles from the trunk of his car, it's useful to slap people in the face with.
If, however, we got the other outcome and they decided "not today" and went cyclic on the mob, you bet your ass we'd still have people on our own 'side' whinging about "bUt WhY DiD ThEy HaVe To ShoOt So MaNy PeOplE? / CoUlDN't ThEy HaVe PiCkEd TheIr TaRgEts BeTtEr? / YoU Can ClEArLy SeE In ThIS ViDeo CliP ThAt SomE Of ThE PrOtEstErs WeRe UnArmed/ etc. etc, ad naseum. Hell, some of those "common sense" types would probably even be trotted out onto the talk-news circuit come trial time to bow and grovel.
I dare you to tell me I'm wrong about that.
And yet, I will bet some of the same people who would be complaining in such a hypothetical situation, already have plans for what they'd do if getting mobbed in their home or vehicle, and would expect to be fully justified and supported in their actions because they're a 'good guy' and 'one of us'.

The hypocrisy of getting self-righteously picky here, while people on "our side" expect to be justified in taking the exact same actions, is why I'm fed up with these ridiculous discussions.
Yes, you do indeed get the same rights you accord to others...
Today they're "getting what they deserve" in your opinion. If they lose, tomorrow you're "getting what you deserve" in the mob's opinion. The only reason their crappy political choices matter at all, is specifically to slap this fact in the face of those who might not 'get it' yet, along with how it has not helped their treatment post-event so far.

But, that's just my opinion...

[ChattanoogaPhil]

You didn't go back very far in their FEC history. For many, many years they wrote sizeable checks to the Carnahans. Does that name ring any bells? It should becaise they vetoed Missouri CHLs twice.

Their anti gun record was so scorched earth there was a book written about it--Show down in the Show me State. Ever read Unintended Consequences? The antagonist is a very thinly veiled Governor Carnahan.

So, what changed? The balance of political power. Missouri became a Republican state, so, time to buy some influence with the new game in town.....they are the very worst type of amoral scum.

I understand. Politics and influence is what it is. As a private citizen, Trump gave money to some of the worst anti-gun politicians, including Chuck Schumer, Andrew Cuomo and Hillary Clinton. I make no apologies for supporting Trump's campaign in 2016 or 2020, nor should 2A advocates be apologizing for voicing support for the self-defense actions of the couple in St Louis.

https://ballotpedia.org/History_of_D...ical_donations

[Esq.]

They claim they support Black Lives Matter, and instead blamed the actions of a few agitators for their fear. "The Black Lives Matters movement is here to stay, its the right message, and it is about time," Albert Watkins, their attorney, said in a statement.

"The McCloskeys want to make sure no one thinks less of BLM, its message and the means it is employing to get its message out because of the actions of a few white individuals who tarnished a peaceful protest."


Full article here-https://www.yahoo.com/news/st-louis-couple-threatened-black-171108171.html


You support that trash- you are NEVER "one of us". Period. End of story.

As far as the rest of it---There are NO RULES at this point. NONE. Not in dealing with people on the other side. It's "weapons free" in terms of morality and nearly so in terms of actual conduct!!! I WILL NOT play Marquis D' Queensbury and get my head knocked in. There is only ONE RULE that matters now- WIN! It's literally about survival.

[BoringGuy45]

These people are pieces of dog shit; my apologies to dog shit. They sued and conned their way to owning everything they have. That being said, I don’t think anyone thinks they’re heroes now that we know who/what they are. In our society, it’s considered unjust if even a career criminal goes to jail for a crime he didn’t commit. Likewise, these assholes have 2A rights even if they are assholes. That is the ONLY reason they are getting any sympathy.

[WillBrink]

They claim they support Black Lives Matter, and instead blamed the actions of a few agitators for their fear. "The Black Lives Matters movement is here to stay, its the right message, and it is about time," Albert Watkins, their attorney, said in a statement.

"The McCloskeys want to make sure no one thinks less of BLM, its message and the means it is employing to get its message out because of the actions of a few white individuals who tarnished a peaceful protest."


Full article here-https://www.yahoo.com/news/st-louis-couple-threatened-black-171108171.html


You support that trash- you are NEVER "one of us". Period. End of story. As far as the rest of it---There are NO RULES at this point. NONE. Not in dealing with people on the other side. It's "weapons free" in terms of morality and nearly so in terms of actual conduct!!! I WILL NOT play Marquis D' Queensbury and get my head knocked in. There is only ONE RULE that matters now- WIN! It's literally about survival.

Some don't seem to understand that we can support their 2A Rights - which no one has denied them in this thread - and view them as bottom feeding hypocritical D bag attorneys that support BLM ,etc. . The two are not mutually exclusive.

Everything I see and read about them to date leads me to reject them as being on our side in any real way and a classic example of the ilk.

I do think they may be the perfect couple that ultimately supports our POV by the DA going after rich, white, woke folks who no doubt though they were above all that.

But heroes of the 2A they are not.

[ScottsBad]

And we agree on that, and no place did I say they didn't have their 2A Rights. They are however classic hypocrites and should not be held up as 2A gun totin' heroes. They're not on "our" side per se. However, after this experience I suspect they and others probably will be!

I think this event works well for our side, but needs to be viewed and positioned appropriately per other comments in this thread.

2A gun totin' heroes they aint.

I didn't intend to imply, if I did, that they be held as heroes. In fact, I said that I don't really like anything about them. I simply addressed their rights, and the need to support people who, in fear of their lives, tried, to the best of their limited ability, protect themselves, their family, and their property.

To me, the brandishing laws are against the 2nd, and ridiculous. If you feel in fear of death or great bodily harm brandishing is a far safer means of asserting your right to self-defense than pulling out a concealed firearm and shooting someone. Or waiting to be attacked or waiting until they come in your home and shoot them.

The right to self defense is under attack. BTW the DA there is supported by Soros.

[ScottsBad]

I have fought these type of scum for my rights my entire life. Im not feeling very magnanimous. The rule as far as im concerned is, you get the same rights you support others having, no more, no less. Choices have consequences.

Their only value to me is to enflame my side and any who might be on the fence who can be reached. Otherwise, i hope the howling mob they fostered tears them limb from limb.

The howling mob will get to them either way, they are done. Even if they are not convicted. The individuals don't matter, but standing up for the principles of our Constitution does, and it out weighs any political consideration. Charging and convicting this couple weakens all our rights. Who cares if they are libtards.

[ScottsBad]

Oh, I think we all understand "the process" quite well. Thats not the issue here.

The issue is that this is clearly a political message being sent- "Let the Goblins, loot, rape, beat and murder.The police, will do NOTHING to protect you. Your job is to die quietly. If you resist in any way, you WILL be punished".

If people can't see this for what it is, they are F'ing morons.

I completely agree with you. The worst part is that even when the arrest the Goblins for rioting, they are let go. Some of them were arrested for destruction of property, arson, assault and other "peaceful protester" acts.

[ScottsBad]

But both what he's saying and what you're saying can be accurate and are not mutually exclusive to each other. There's no doubt this is about sending a message that's more politically motivated than legally. That they happen to be attorneys, white woke and wealthy, will play in our favor if "we" are smart about it.

That even the white woke and wealthy can get charged over that is gonna freak out a lot of white woke and wealthy types too who probably thought they were immune to such legal entanglements.

Honestly, from out POV, charging them may be a win as even the most white woke and wealthy will like "WTF?"

No, it demoralizes our side and emboldens the nuts. There may be some small secondary learning for the Lefty Rich, but they are still in support of the nuts, because, you know, Orange Man and Police bad, white guilt, white supremacy, and historically BAD America. And of course no one wants to be caught supporting Law and Order, or going against "the narrative" on social media.

[ScottsBad]

Here's my take on this. Ok, they're Leftists, but they seem to understand the Capitalist system and how to make money - lots of it. They're also gun owners who understand the Right to Keep and Bear Arms for personal defense, and they weren't afraid to arm themselves. This gives us some commonality with these people. I'd like to actually sit down with them and compare notes on politics and the direction of America. It is not uncommon for people to be left leaning and experience a life changing event which pushes them further Right. I wouldn't write them off yet.

If they could experience credible, Right members of society, they could see a definite distinction between responsible, patriotic Americans and that rabble running wild in their area.

Wow, you are offering facts, reason, free speech, and the possibility of finding a common ground. Bravo! But don't try that with the Leftist Mob, you will be beat to death.