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Thread: Trust Advantage?

  1. #31
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    I created a trust, once I acquire the first wave of NFA stuff, I will add my wife as an RP. Right now she is just the beneficiary.

    Dumb question; Once you have a bunch of NFA stuff, you just add an RP? They don't need background checks and have access to all the NFA stuff? No fingerprints?
    ..It was you to me who taught
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  2. #32
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    Trust Advantage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devildawg2531 View Post
    Thanks Wake. So I could open the trust online now and "buy" the suppressor online today as well. They bill my card and then it transfers to a a local FFL after ATF approval?
    Pretty sure you can buy the can right now without a trust. Itíll have to go to an NFA dealer and thatís where the trust comes in because youíll tell them how to transfer it to you (individual or trust). And itís going to sit there for a while so by the times itís shipped from a distributor to your dealer, you may be able to have the trust up and running.

    I havenít actually done it yet so I may be wrong, but thatís how my dealer explained it. And if you donít have a specific dealer in mind, Iíd recommend trying to find one that has a range and will let you have visitation rights while in NFA jail. That way you can still play with it while it sits in their storage room for months.


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    Last edited by Wake27; 07-14-20 at 09:21.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by thei3ug View Post
    tl;dr Trust can live on. Trust avoids estate on death. items pass to beneficiaries without double tax. trustees can possess items (instead of just you). go to a reputable dealer that sells standard language trusts.

    typical trust benefits. the trust can remain for the length state law allows, allowing trustees to exercise possession (see below). Your property will pass as though through a regular trust. 27 C.F.R. ß 479.90a allows NFA trust property to pass through without a double tax, the executor of the trust files an ATF Form 5.

    Another perk: Legal Possession of trust property by multiple people, defined by 41F as "responsible persons." RPs must fill out ATF Form 5320.23. Includes a photo and fingerprint card. Beneficiaries must have some other administrative role in the trust to be an RP.

    The legal profession is shifting hard to self service for items like trusts. Hiring a lawyer to draft a trust is overkill unless you're the heir to the Campbell's Soup fortune. There are a few boutique turnkey NFA trust services. Many dealers also offer boilerplate NFA trusts.

    Do not copy and paste someone else's trust from the internet. Remember, your state law governs the formation of trusts. verify the state law meets your objective for the trust, and that the company you're purchasing the trust from addresses the state law. Typically dealers and boutique self service firms will provide instructions on how to form your trust and the applicable state law.
    Thatís one of the more succinct explanations- thank you

  4. #34
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    Can you have a trust for gun stuff and a trust for other stuff?
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand View Post
    Can you have a trust for gun stuff and a trust for other stuff?
    Yes you can.
    I have multiple NFA trusts to allow me to distribute NFA items to specific individuals without having to do additional transfers. Then you can have other trust(s) to handle other firearms and or items such as camera gear, coin collections, reloading equipment, etc.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wake27 View Post
    Pretty sure you can buy the can right now without a trust. It’ll have to go to an NFA dealer and that’s where the trust comes in because you’ll tell them how to transfer it to you (individual or trust). And it’s going to sit there for a while so by the times it’s shipped from a distributor to your dealer, you may be able to have the trust up and running.

    I haven’t actually done it yet so I may be wrong, but that’s how my dealer explained it. And if you don’t have a specific dealer in mind, I’d recommend trying to find one that has a range and will let you have visitation rights while in NFA jail. That way you can still play with it while it sits in their storage room for months.


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    That's pretty much how it works where I got my can. Bought in the trust name. Paid $0.01. They held it with use rights at the range while waiting a day under 12 months for stamp and then pay the balance and pick up the can.

  7. #37
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    Adding Assets and Trustees

    Not sure if okay to post here or start a new thread.

    When I did my 1st form 1 for my SBR and purchased my 1st suppressor, both were done using applicant name of an NFA trust. I'm the trustee and wife is beneficiary. I want to make it lawful to allow my two sons and my wife to have access to the trust NFA items (responsible person). I'm also thinking to add any other firearms to the trust (not NFA items). Like to know others thoughts on doing this. Also, I do not know what the process is to accomplish all this. I had the trust template made by an online service for ~$100 and my wife did the keyboard work. Is it just a simple matter of changing page one and schedule one? Or is it far more complicated now with all the people having to get finger prints and forms to file? My sons all have their own NFA trust and many NFA items with all in their households as responsible persons.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterdrago View Post
    I'm also thinking to add any other firearms to the trust (not NFA items). Like to know others thoughts on doing this
    Why? The purpose of your trust is to allow your wife and sons access to firearms that they wouldn't otherwise be able to have legal access to. That doesn't apply to non-NFA items. So what would be accomplished by adding non-NFA items to the trust? I don't know the answer to this question, but would everyone in the trust have to go through a background check to get a non-NFA item added to the trust?

  9. #39
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    Non NFA items in a trust is more an estate planning issue than an NFA trust issue. For simplicity sake, you may want to keep it separate. If you want to put property in a trust, firearm or no, that’s fine. But The NFA trust as currently conceived is a way of designating RP’s, because of how the NFA was written regarding possession. That’s all. The typical trust functions are secondary value. Non NFA property will receive no special benefit from being in the same trust.

    As for how simple it is... you need to (1) update the trust as you mentioned, granting them the legal right to manage/possess trust property. Then (2) you need to fill out 5320.23, provide fingerprints and photos.

    When you add another person to the trust, you need to fill out 5320.23. The whole point of an RP designation, questionable as I find it, is to confirm anyone holding a Title II item is in fact legally allowed to. Where before, trusts bypassed background checks. The RP is a band aid to the way the NFA was written, but thankfully they didn’t make it too onerous.

    If you DID NOT fill out a 5320.23 When adding a person to the trust, they CANNOT possess the Title II item in your absence, defeating the purpose of the NFA trust.

    RP designation does not affect possession of non Title II items in the trust (other state/federal laws apply).

    Example. I buy a suppressor in trust. My wife and I are on the trust. We both can use the suppressor individually.
    I add my son to the trust. nothing changes. Only my wife and I can use it individually.
    OR.... I add my son and we fill out a 5320.23. Now My son, my wife, or I can use the suppressor individually.

    There are a few what-ifs between those dealing with my untimely demise, but that’s the main benefit right there. And the function of form 5320.23.
    Last edited by thei3ug; 08-03-20 at 21:02.

  10. #40
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    Thanks thei3ug. That was the info I was missing. Do the RPs fill the form for both of my NFA items in the trust? For the suppressor and the SBR it is attached to? The instruction seem fairly clear ... but... Since the NFA items already have stams, am I just attaching copies of those to each persons 5320.23?
    Last edited by masterdrago; 08-04-20 at 21:57.

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