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Thread: Tikka T3x Tac A1 vs Seekins Havak Bravo vs DD Delta 5 vs ???

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coal Dragger View Post
    the material is 7075 T6 so it’s going to be considerably stronger than the 6065 of the other two.
    This is a little bit of a fallacy.
    There are applications where 6061 or 6065 are better than 7075, and I don't think that you're going to see a real material advantage when it comes to a chassis.
    6000 series AL will tend to bend and deform when reaching failure rather than crack.
    7075 is used in application where breakage at failure is preferable over dimensional variance, such as with uppers and lowers.
    The practical differences between 6061/65 and 7075 are less than what the vast majority of users will experience.
    I would not consider the use of 6061 in the MPA chassis to be negative in any way.
    Jack Leuba
    Director, Military and Government Sales
    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  2. #22
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    Again thank you for the clarification, material sciences isnít my field of expertise so the explanation of performance difference ls between the two most commonly encountered AL alloys in the firearms world is useful.

    I will take the difference in chassis alloy material out of the equation as there are no advantages to be had. Iím over thinking this anyway, its a target rifle stock, not something getting issued to grunts for field use.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    If you intend on moving to PRS/NRL competition with the rifle, I'd recommend something in 6mm Creedmoor, and from your list, the only compliant rifle is the Seekins.
    If you just want to hit steel at 1,000, .308 from a 20+" barrel is adequate. Whole lot of people do it regularly with 16" .308 gas guns. If you're going to get into a precision bolt gun, I'd figure that you'd want to get quantifiably better long-range performance. 6.5 stuff has been pretty significantly overshadowed by 6mm in this application.
    I shoot a lot of 6.5 Creedmoor, and there are good reasons to go with that cartridge for some applications, but if I am going to go shoot competitively with an expectation to place well, I'm taking a rifle that throws 6mm projectiles and stays within the speed limit (usually 3200 ft/s).
    If you don't care about doing well in a competitive atmosphere, go with whatever tickles your fancy.
    On the caliber discussion, to underscore Jack's post about the use cases for 6.5 CM, and the advantage of 6mm for comps. Here's an article that's data-driven and based on the cartridge choice of top PRS competitors in 2018 season. It shows that 6mm prevailed over 6.5 even 2 years ago among top PRS shooters:

    https://precisionrifleblog.com/2018/...rifle-caliber/

    Personally I'm not a PRS shooter, and there aren't a ton of great factory hunting loads for the 6mm (although I'm sure the 6mm could be a great whitetail caliber), so those reasons alone rule it out as being of much practical use for me. Still see it as a great, promising caliber, but entirely a niche one for PRS. If it ever takes off as a popular lighter hunting caliber for medium game, with more factory loads available, I'll get more interested. Otherwise I don't have a need to stock ANY other small centerfire rifle calibers besides 223/5.56. For a mid-range general purpose caliber, I like 6.5 and .308 about equally for a lot of the same reasons: they are affordable, available in many quality factory loads, have moderate recoil, and are effective for just about any use case out to at least 1,000y (more for 6.5). For those who want to pare back their total stock of rifles and calibers--as I am--it might make sense to choose one of these two calibers versus keeping both, and focus on training and getting effective with one of them. I dithered for a couple years and had a hard time letting go of my old faithful .308's, but finally did and now am a 6.5-only bolt gun shooter. The 6.5 from both comparatively shooting it against my .308's in hunting and range use, and the ballistic advantages that led the Army to choose it over .308, had more than enough advantages to convince me to make it my general purpose long gun caliber. Next thing will be a DD or KAC in 6.5.

    Army sniper teams rationale for switching to 6.5:
    https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-...und-next-year/
    Top Special Operations forces snipers will replace their 7.62 sniper rifles with the 6.5 Creedmoor, which doubles their hit probability at 1,000m, increases their effective range by nearly half, reduces wind drift by a third, and has less recoil.
    Last edited by maximus83; 07-29-20 at 04:08. Reason: formatting line-wrap

  4. #24
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    Thanks I had already read the article posted, and for gaming the 6mm class of cartridges hold a clear advantage; at least in the most common organizations for precision rifle outside of the various NRA disciplines.

    As a reloaded I could make .243 or 6mm Creedmoor work quite adequately for hunting, there arenít any deer sized animals I would hesitate to hunt using 100gr Nosler Accubonds, Partitions, or Barnes TTSX bullets at around 3,000 fps. The smaller capacity 6mm cartridges though are really only good for gaming, and shooting prairie dogs; just not enough case capacity to sling appropriate medium game bullets fast enough to work properly.

    Iím also trying to pair down or limit the number of rifles I have, so an action that allows for easy caliber conversion to include different case diameters is preferred. Iím coming to the conclusion that to do what I want itís coming to involve a custom action that runs a swapable bolt head, and is capable of taking shouldered pre-fit barrels or running a barrel nut.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coal Dragger View Post
    so an action that allows for easy caliber conversion to include different case diameters is preferred. I’m coming to the conclusion that to do what I want it’s coming to involve a custom action that runs a swapable bolt head, and is capable of taking shouldered pre-fit barrels or running a barrel nut.
    That is definitely worth considering for your setup. As part of a caliber-switching solution, I'd recommend researching the West Texas Ordnance switchlug setup. I have it fitted to a factory Tikka T3x running a Proof CF barrel in 6.5CM. With a plain inch-pound torque wrench, it lets you swap barrels at the range and will stay within a half Moa. And Clayton will give you your action specs, which you can then send to ANY barrel maker who can turn a new barrel and ship it to you in the future, without needing the rifle. It's a slick, low-friction setup for both future barrel replacements, and swapping barrels/calibers at the range. Clayton has a solid rep with his system and I've been happy with mine, though I've not yet had him spin me barrels in other calibers.

  6. #26
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    Does Tikka sell bolts individually?

    Eventually Iíd like to have a short action that can run bolt faces for .223/5.56, .308 family, and a short magnum bolt face.

    Something like. Bighorn TL-3 or Origin can do this no problem, and the Bighorn/Zermatt actions are belt to consistent enough tolerances that there are multiple barrel makers who spin up pre-fits sight unseen. A bolt head and extractor from Bighorn is about $175 if memory serves.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coal Dragger View Post
    Does Tikka sell bolts individually?

    Eventually I’d like to have a short action that can run bolt faces for .223/5.56, .308 family, and a short magnum bolt face.

    Something like. Bighorn TL-3 or Origin can do this no problem, and the Bighorn/Zermatt actions are belt to consistent enough tolerances that there are multiple barrel makers who spin up pre-fits sight unseen. A bolt head and extractor from Bighorn is about $175 if memory serves.
    I don't know if Tikka does, but to be clear, the Switchlug system can be fitted to various rifle actions as a way to swap out a barrel: R700, Bighorn, etc. If I do get additional barrels I plan to stay within the .308 family on my Tikka so I can reuse mags and bolt.

  8. #28
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    I think were I in your shoes, Iíd buy a Zermatt Arms/Big Horn TL3 SA with standard bolt face ($1100), a KRG Bravo chassis ($450), buy a barrel vice ($75) and an action wrench ($100). Then you can buy pre-fit barrels from Patriot Valley, Huntís Long Range, or a number of others for around $700 ea. Pick your caliber and trigger and youíll be good to go. I have a 6mm Creedmoor barrel and a 6.5 PRC barrel for mine (though I went with a Manners mini-chassis). I plan to eventually pick up either a 6.5 or .308 barrel to live on it for training, throw the 6 on for competing and the PRC for hunting. This way Iíve got my one preferred stock, trigger, and high-end optic for every application. The only thing that changes is the dope I dial and with an area 419 brake, recoil isnít very noticeable.


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