Seeking advice on night vision

[just a scout]

What’s the verdict on this one?


https://www.jrhenterprises.com/Photo...14ECHOspec.htm


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[kerplode]

What’s the verdict on this one?
https://www.jrhenterprises.com/Photo...14ECHOspec.htm
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That’s the one I have inbound...It shipped this morning, so I’ll get hands on next week.

The more I think about the TW situation, I think y’all are right about it being overblown. I’ll give ‘em a look.

[okie]

TNVC is pretty high. I got a thin film white phosphor Elbit for about 30% less, with better specs than what someone was saying their TNVC unit had. I've seen two or three places listing them for about what I got mine for.

[jpmuscle]

TNVC is pretty high. I got a thin film white phosphor Elbit for about 30% less, with better specs than what someone was saying their TNVC unit had. I've seen two or three places listing them for about what I got mine for.

TNVC is meme.


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[okie]

TNVC is meme.


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Yea I always just assumed that they were selling super high spec units in the 2500+ FOM range. But I was surprised to find out that wasn't the case apparently.

[WS6]

I'm not a TNVC customer, but I'll vouch for them. Dudes are seriously helpful, etc. and at least when you buy from them you know what you're getting. You won't get something weird like Apache lenses, or a body that won't fit a mil-spec J arm, or any other inconsistencies. I view them as as close to an actual factory unit as you can get. Yes, you DO pay for this. Yes, they will hand select tubes for you with whatever FOM/SNR/EBI/Halo you want.

Team Wendy helmet is the way to go for me. My girlfriend also likes NODS, and the Boa allows it to fit either of us just fine, rapidly, without dicking with a bunch of fasteners.

Stick with a conventional PVS14 unless you have unconventional uses. My first PVS14 used a VyperC body, and the only mount that fits those is the KVE/RQE shoes, and I just wanted to use Norotos or Wilcox. Don't try to reinvent the wheel! Get as close to milspec as you can here, because that is what almost all of the mounts are designed around.

I prefer P45 to P43, but a few people are opposite.

FOM is stupid. It tells you almost nothing about a unit. Look at SNR, EBI, and lp/mm, and keep your uses in mind. After 64lp/mm, unless you are magnifying, you can't tell, but SNR is very evident, so you could actually have a higher FOM unit with worse performance by a large margin, for example if you have an 72lp/mm unit with 25snr and an EBI of 1.1, halo 1.4, PC response 2000, you would have a 2025FOM unit. If you had a 64mm/lp unit with 30SNR and EBI of 0.1, halo 0.6, PC response 2500, you would have a 1920FOM unit, and it would absolutely obliterate the higher 2025 FOM unit in every discernible way unless you magnified it. But if you just buy based on FOM, you'd have selected a pretty shitty tube but with great resolution.

Just what I've gathered during my few months of intellectually investing in NODS.

[okie]

I'm not a TNVC customer, but I'll vouch for them. Dudes are seriously helpful, etc. and at least when you buy from them you know what you're getting. You won't get something weird like Apache lenses, or a body that won't fit a mil-spec J arm, or any other inconsistencies. I view them as as close to an actual factory unit as you can get. Yes, you DO pay for this. Yes, they will hand select tubes for you with whatever FOM/SNR/EBI/Halo you want.

Team Wendy helmet is the way to go for me. My girlfriend also likes NODS, and the Boa allows it to fit either of us just fine, rapidly, without dicking with a bunch of fasteners.

Stick with a conventional PVS14 unless you have unconventional uses. My first PVS14 used a VyperC body, and the only mount that fits those is the KVE/RQE shoes, and I just wanted to use Norotos or Wilcox. Don't try to reinvent the wheel! Get as close to milspec as you can here, because that is what almost all of the mounts are designed around.

I prefer P45 to P43, but a few people are opposite.

FOM is stupid. It tells you almost nothing about a unit. Look at SNR, EBI, and lp/mm, and keep your uses in mind. After 64lp/mm, unless you are magnifying, you can't tell, but SNR is very evident, so you could actually have a higher FOM unit with worse performance by a large margin, for example if you have an 72lp/mm unit with 25snr and an EBI of 1.1, halo 1.4, PC response 2000, you would have a 2025FOM unit. If you had a 64mm/lp unit with 30SNR and EBI of 0.1, halo 0.6, PC response 2500, you would have a 1920FOM unit, and it would absolutely obliterate the higher 2025 FOM unit in every discernible way unless you magnified it. But if you just buy based on FOM, you'd have selected a pretty shitty tube but with great resolution.

Just what I've gathered during my few months of intellectually investing in NODS.

To be fair though you can say that about a lot of night vision dealers. From what I've heard, their tubes aren't high spec for the price point, so that whole "hand select" thing is pretty meaningless to me. If they had nicer tubes than what others were selling it would be one thing, but from what I've seen the opposite is true.

[Defaultmp3]

To be fair though you can say that about a lot of night vision dealers. From what I've heard, their tubes aren't high spec for the price point, so that whole "hand select" thing is pretty meaningless to me. If they had nicer tubes than what others were selling it would be one thing, but from what I've seen the opposite is true.

Hand-select, AFAIK, means you can personally pick out the tube you want from a list, and since most of the tubes can handily beat the minimum spec, it seems like a worthwhile feature. When I was shopping, the 20UM and 22UA tubes I was offered was much better than the minimum specs published on the website; while minimum FOM for the 20UMs was 1792 (with 64 lpmm and 28 SNR minimums), list I could select from had nothing below 2400 FOM; I would imagine this transfers over to other tube choices.

[okie]

Hand-select, AFAIK, means you can personally pick out the tube you want from a list, and since most of the tubes can handily beat the minimum spec, it seems like a worthwhile feature. When I was shopping, the 20UM and 22UA tubes I was offered was much better than the minimum specs published on the website; while minimum FOM for the 20UMs was 1792 (with 64 lpmm and 28 SNR minimums), list I could select from had nothing below 2400 FOM; I would imagine this transfers over to other tube choices.

That's pretty much true of most places, though. Hardly anyone is going to buy a tube without seeing the data sheet, and they'll usually show you several, and you can pick what you want. Like maybe you're really into EBI and there's one with a really good EBI that's only like 10 less FOM.

Practically speaking, the actual specs are going to be pretty significantly higher than the minimums. Granted I've not seen that many spec sheets, but I've yet to see one that was in the neighborhood of the minimums.

[jpmuscle]

I'm not a TNVC customer, but I'll vouch for them. Dudes are seriously helpful, etc. and at least when you buy from them you know what you're getting. You won't get something weird like Apache lenses, or a body that won't fit a mil-spec J arm, or any other inconsistencies. I view them as as close to an actual factory unit as you can get. Yes, you DO pay for this. Yes, they will hand select tubes for you with whatever FOM/SNR/EBI/Halo you want.

Team Wendy helmet is the way to go for me. My girlfriend also likes NODS, and the Boa allows it to fit either of us just fine, rapidly, without dicking with a bunch of fasteners.

Stick with a conventional PVS14 unless you have unconventional uses. My first PVS14 used a VyperC body, and the only mount that fits those is the KVE/RQE shoes, and I just wanted to use Norotos or Wilcox. Don't try to reinvent the wheel! Get as close to milspec as you can here, because that is what almost all of the mounts are designed around.

I prefer P45 to P43, but a few people are opposite.

FOM is stupid. It tells you almost nothing about a unit. Look at SNR, EBI, and lp/mm, and keep your uses in mind. After 64lp/mm, unless you are magnifying, you can't tell, but SNR is very evident, so you could actually have a higher FOM unit with worse performance by a large margin, for example if you have an 72lp/mm unit with 25snr and an EBI of 1.1, halo 1.4, PC response 2000, you would have a 2025FOM unit. If you had a 64mm/lp unit with 30SNR and EBI of 0.1, halo 0.6, PC response 2500, you would have a 1920FOM unit, and it would absolutely obliterate the higher 2025 FOM unit in every discernible way unless you magnified it. But if you just buy based on FOM, you'd have selected a pretty shitty tube but with great resolution.

Just what I've gathered during my few months of intellectually investing in NODS.

There’s nothing Voodoo about night vision.

Maybe 15-20 years ago before civilian interest grew into what it is nowadays but the stuff is no different than any other moderately expensive electronic wizz bang legos. Tubes are old tech by today’s standards but the manufacturing process is still tedious and not everyone can do it well so the costs remain what they are. On top of that industry manufacturers and retailers absolutely rape the community on parts like housings (most of which are plastic ) and lenses do that doesn’t help costs either. Digital will eventually blow present offerings out of the water in terms of both cost and performance, it’s just a matter of time and how much the civilian side of the industry resists progress at the expense of profits.

TNVC is probably the biggest name in the game and like you said the folks are certainly competent and helpful but their industry reps talk a lot of sh*t disparaging other companies, JRH being one of them, acting like they (TNVC) are the trolls on the mountain topic hiding in the magical mysticism of night vision products and engineering and only they hold the keys to the secret sauce.

It’d be comical if it weren’t so blatantly offensive to the consumer. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work on this stuff, obviously deep repair work like repotting tubes and what not takes a properly skilled, equipped, and knowledgeable hand but there’s lot of smaller shops putting out great products because it’s not that difficult.

But hey I’m sure if anyone calls and asks nicely I’m sure they’d be happy to charge even more for civilian powered MAWLs....


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