SilverTip .223

[Fail-Safe]

Actually it wasnt a training failure, the car was engaged from 2 sides, the front and right. Not a single 55gr Silvertip made it through the windshield or car door. However the pistol rounds did. Wesley Ruiz was hit 6 times that day as he laid on the floorboards under the dash, all by handgun rounds fired through the door.

Whats disturbing isnt that they didnt get Ruiz with the rifles, but that none of the rounds made it through a tough, but beatable intermediate barrier, until several rounds blew chunks of windshield out. By then, Ruiz was already hiding low. DPD does have barrier rounds in the form of the 60gr Nosler Partition. However, DPD issues those exclusively to DPD Tactical.

Because of this incident, alot of DPD officers carry 20rd mags loaded with ball. Some believe it will help.

[DocGKR]

"Because of this incident, alot of DPD officers carry 20rd mags loaded with ball. Some believe it will help."

It won't...if they want an alternative to defeat intermediate barriers, they should carry a barrier blind round like the Federal 55 or 62 gr Tactical JSP, Nosler 60 gr Partition, Remington 75 gr Swift Scirroco II PT, or Barnes TSX load, etc...

[tpd223]

"Actually it wasnt a training failure, the car was engaged from 2 sides, the front and right"

Actually, it was. The initial approach by the officer who was killed, failure to apply a felony car stop tactic, etc., were glaring tactical/training failures.

From the front?,,,,, again, engine blocks stop bullets.

My information is that the bad guy was already laid down when shots were fired, thus every round into the windshield was over the top of him, ineffective regardless of ammo.

I'm done commenting on that part of the issue on an open forum.

Ball ammo? What Doc said, it will be no more effective, and likely less so, than the SilverTip.

Cor Bon DPX and Federal Bonded Tactical are the answer to the question of how to get into a car with a .223 rifle.

[Abraxas]

Tagging for interest

[Fail-Safe]

"Actually it wasnt a training failure, the car was engaged from 2 sides, the front and right"

Actually, it was. The initial approach by the officer who was killed, failure to apply a felony car stop tactic, etc., were glaring tactical/training failures.

I am speaking of the deployment of the rifles and the way the officers attacked the suspect once the officer had gone down. Not prior.

From the front?,,,,, again, engine blocks stop bullets.

Thus far, you are the only one to mention engine blocks, I am speaking of windshields.

My information is that the bad guy was already laid down when shots were fired, thus every round into the windshield was over the top of him, ineffective regardless of ammo.

He was initially laying down, but once he fired the 3 rounds, he decided to Rambo it, sat up, and tried to used his AR pistol again but it jammed. When he sat up was when the windshield was fired at.

Ball ammo? What Doc said, it will be no more effective, and likely less so, than the SilverTip.

Apparently you are confused in my words, I did not say it will help at all, I know better, but some of the officers believe it to be an advantage.

Feel free to IM for details. I dont get on here everyday so there may be a delay.

[Fail-Safe]

It won't...if they want an alternative to defeat intermediate barriers, they should carry a barrier blind round like the Federal 55 or 62 gr Tactical JSP, Nosler 60 gr Partition, Remington 75 gr Swift Scirroco II PT, or Barnes TSX load, etc...

DPD SWAT uses the 60gr Nosler Partition, but thats it, they wont general issue that load.

A local news station (KDFW/Lynn Kawano reported) did a story on the round that Patrol uses. The chief interviewed, I forget his name(1 star), said that they wanted a round that fragments, and arent concerned with much else.

One reason I think they stick with the 55gr stuff is the various ARs on patrol. The issue rifle is the Colt 6920, but officers who want their own rifle, and dont want to wait for the dept to get to them can purchase Rock River Arms. The RRAs they can buy have 1/9, while the Colts have 1/7. There are also some officers from waaaaaay back who still are allowed the "Armalites"(though I think they are Colt SP1s) they bought back in the day.