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Thread: NO lube on bolt/rings as per FN manual?

  1. #61
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    Thanks, LMT.
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  2. #62
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    Everyone here is familiar with and most likely supports the notion of "using the right tool for the job".

    The more I look into this whole AR lubrication issue, the clearer it becomes.


    Using oil in the AR platform is akin to using a socket wrench to pound nails.

    Sure, the socket wrench is a great tool when used to tighten nuts and bolts.


    When it comes to pounding nails, the socket wrench CAN work (especially if applied generously ), but is clearly NOT the best tool for the job; the hammer is.

    Grease for the AR is like the hammer for nails, the right tool for the job.
    Black River Tactical
    BRT OPTIMUM Barrels - 16" MPR, 14.5" MPC, 12.5" MRC, 11.5" CQB, 9" PDW
    BRT EZTUNE Preset Gas Tubes - CAR and MID
    BRT Covert Comps 7.62, 5.56, 6X, 9mm
    BRT MarkBlue Gas Tubes - BRT EXT, EXC and PDW Lengths
    BRT MicroPin Gas Blocks - .750" & .625"
    BRT MicroTUNE Adjustable Gas Blocks
    BRT CustomTUNE Gas Ports

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clint View Post
    Grease for the AR is like the hammer for nails, the right tool for the job.
    Do you consider TW25B acceptable?

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clint View Post
    Everyone here is familiar with and most likely supports the notion of "using the right tool for the job".

    The more I look into this whole AR lubrication issue, the clearer it becomes.


    Using oil in the AR platform is akin to using a socket wrench to pound nails.

    Sure, the socket wrench is a great tool when used to tighten nuts and bolts.


    When it comes to pounding nails, the socket wrench CAN work (especially if applied generously ), but is clearly NOT the best tool for the job; the hammer is.

    Grease for the AR is like the hammer for nails, the right tool for the job.
    In all operating temps?


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  5. #65
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    I tried TW25 on the rails but switched back to LP, this was with an interior bore coating of one shot. It seemed to dry out quicker than I liked, gummy with firing residue.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clint View Post
    Everyone here is familiar with and most likely supports the notion of "using the right tool for the job".
    The more I look into this whole AR lubrication issue, the clearer it becomes.
    Using oil in the AR platform is akin to using a socket wrench to pound nails.
    Sure, the socket wrench is a great tool when used to tighten nuts and bolts.
    When it comes to pounding nails, the socket wrench CAN work (especially if applied generously ), but is clearly NOT the best tool for the job; the hammer is.
    Grease for the AR is like the hammer for nails, the right tool for the job.
    I'm not sure about that comparison. A socket wrench and hammer are both handtools, each intended for a job with a particular fastener and method of operation. Oil and grease are both lubricants, and substantially more interchangeable than those handtools. Oil and grease are both hammers, though one could be a ball-peen and the other a claw.

    And how do we reconcile that with oil's legacy of decades of successfully lubricating guns without ill effect?

    I unpacked a new rifle, lathered the bcg, and shot a few thousand rounds through it without further care. Now at ~10k rounds in an oil-based lube regimen, it remains in service. What am I missing?
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  7. #67
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    With an appropriate grade and temperature rating, sure.

    Keep in mind, the lightweight greases most suitable for ARs are much thinner (like a sun tan lotion) than the familiar automotive type greases.

    ETA:
    The "greatest battle implement ever devised", the M1 Garand, was engineered to be lubricated almost exclusively with grease and was highly reliable within the temperature range capability of the issued grease.

    The grease technology available at that time (mineral oil with calcium soap thickener) was limited to around -10F minimum operating temperature.

    Unfortunately for our war fighters during the Korean conflict, conditions dipped down to -36F, causing serious malfunctions.

    Modern synthetic greases can be formulated to allow operation down to -60F or more.

    Quote Originally Posted by R0CKETMAN View Post
    In all operating temps?
    Black River Tactical
    BRT OPTIMUM Barrels - 16" MPR, 14.5" MPC, 12.5" MRC, 11.5" CQB, 9" PDW
    BRT EZTUNE Preset Gas Tubes - CAR and MID
    BRT Covert Comps 7.62, 5.56, 6X, 9mm
    BRT MarkBlue Gas Tubes - BRT EXT, EXC and PDW Lengths
    BRT MicroPin Gas Blocks - .750" & .625"
    BRT MicroTUNE Adjustable Gas Blocks
    BRT CustomTUNE Gas Ports

  8. #68
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    I know that this thread is about lubing the rings specifically, but unless something has changed in the collective knowledge base, Iíll continue to follow the advice of Pat Rogers (R.I.P.);

    http://www.slip2000.com/blog/s-w-a-t...rbine-running/

    ďThe bolt itself requires a coating of oil, paying particular attention to the bolt rings and the lugs. Those bolt rings function just like the piston rings in your car engine. How long do you think your ride would last without lube?
    ...

    I advise shooters that during the chow break they should place a few drops of oil into those two gas ports on the right side of the bolt carrier. The lube will get into the gas rings located handily nearby and keep your gun running smoothly.Ē

    Back in my IPSC/3-Gun days, I was leery of using too much lube, having been told as a teen that it attracts dirt. I also used to clean the living hell out of my guns.

    My AR ran ďokĒ, but wasnít 100%. Iím sure some of that had to do with configuration and ammo, but it didnít help that I under-lubed it. Looking back, I remember my malfunctions happening in latter stages, where the early stages of the day typically went well.

    Later on, when I reconfigured the gun as a more HD-oriented gun, minor problems persisted, but I chalked it up to ARs being ARs. Guns have malfunctions, right? What I didnít understand was that mine was having a lot of malfunctions. I had always heard guys talking about them jamming. I mean isnít that what drove the growth is piston ARs? Because the D.I. system wasnít reliable?

    Iraq and Afghanistan changed stuff. Tons of data from combat in harsh conditions started pouring in. And that data changed a lot of things.

    Rails arenít useless toys. Red dots work. The D.I. system isnít inherently unreliable. 5.56 isnít a weakling round unsuited to combat.

    About the time I joined this site and started learning a lot more about the AR platform, SWAT magazine published Pat Rogersí article above. It fundamentally changed the way I looked at cleaning and lubing weapons systems. Since that article, and running my ARs wet (but not dripping), I can honestly say that I cannot remember a malfunction that was gun related.

    Anecdotal? Yup. Iím not a high-volume shooter anymore. But in my experience over 25 years of having done both ways, Iíll keep lubing my gun up very well.

    And that includes the rings.


    Sent from 80ms in the future

  9. #69
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    A little more info in oil vs grease:

    Quote Originally Posted by cenex View Post
    https://www.cenex.com/about/cenex-in...ncy%20of%20oil.
    The biggest difference setting grease apart from oil is its thickener.
    Grease is a thickened oil, not a thicker oil.
    The thickener within a grease acts as a sponge, holding the base oil and the additives together.
    This creates a greaseís semi-fluid or solid structure, as opposed to the syrup-like consistency of oil.
    This added thickener is crucial when it comes to the applications where grease is needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by ST911 View Post
    Oil and grease are both lubricants, and substantially more interchangeable than those handtools. Oil and grease are both hammers, though one could be a ball-peen and the other a claw.


    All weapons need lubrication and any lube is better than no lube.

    However, oil requires more frequent and more generous application to maintain function than grease.

    Oil burns up, drains away and allows friction contaminates direct access to the wear surfaces.

    Oil can and does work, but is not the BEST tool for the job.

    Quote Originally Posted by ST911 View Post
    And how do we reconcile that with oil's legacy of decades of successfully lubricating guns without ill effect?

    I unpacked a new rifle, lathered the bcg, and shot a few thousand rounds through it without further care. Now at ~10k rounds in an oil-based lube regimen, it remains in service. What am I missing?
    Black River Tactical
    BRT OPTIMUM Barrels - 16" MPR, 14.5" MPC, 12.5" MRC, 11.5" CQB, 9" PDW
    BRT EZTUNE Preset Gas Tubes - CAR and MID
    BRT Covert Comps 7.62, 5.56, 6X, 9mm
    BRT MarkBlue Gas Tubes - BRT EXT, EXC and PDW Lengths
    BRT MicroPin Gas Blocks - .750" & .625"
    BRT MicroTUNE Adjustable Gas Blocks
    BRT CustomTUNE Gas Ports

  10. #70
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