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Thread: NO lube on bolt/rings as per FN manual?

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyAngel View Post
    That page in the Air Force manual also says to stagger the rings....pfft.

    I wonder how much of what is in the manual is actually necessary and how much of it is just something that someone thought was a good idea.
    Gene Stoner advised staggering the gas rings. I heard him say it. I would surmise that this is the reason the military manuals include this recommendation.

    Yes, we all know that the gun runs if you don't stagger.

  2. #52
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    I looked at the rings through the gas vents last weekend and they were dry after shooting. Lubing the rings matters not.
    "What would a $2,000 Geissele Super Duty do that a $500 PSA door buster on Black Friday couldn't do?" - Stopsign32v

  3. #53
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    Interestingly, LSA is actually a very lightweight grease.

    It's only taken 50 years to "rediscover" the benefits of lubricating with grease in the AR.

    Quote Originally Posted by P2Vaircrewman View Post
    I have the M16 comic book cleaning manual issued in the 60's and it says 1 drop of LSA in the carrier key.
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  4. #54
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    As is one shot, thin film moly plus LP works ok for me...
    Last edited by LMT/556; 07-28-20 at 16:13.

  5. #55
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    When it comes to lube I stand by "the wetter, the better" concept. Guns are still machines, like engines with pistons and rings. Would you not run oil a sufficient amount of oil in your truck?
    "your AR is shit, change my mind" - Will Larson

    I make work horses, not show ponies.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clint View Post
    Interestingly, LSA is actually a very lightweight grease.

    It's only taken 50 years to "rediscover" the benefits of lubricating with grease in the AR.
    I'm still using some 'liberated' from my old unit,and I haven't looked...is LSA available commercially?
    No use mentioning what we called it...
    Moon
    ETA-actually just ordered some, tho' it was thin on the ground.
    M
    Last edited by halfmoonclip; 07-31-20 at 17:12.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-0- View Post
    When it comes to lube I stand by "the wetter, the better" concept. Guns are still machines, like engines with pistons and rings. Would you not run oil a sufficient amount of oil in your truck?
    The thing is that 4-cycle engines either have pressurized or splash lube systems, 2-cycle engines use an oil-fuel mixture. None of these are present on the AR.

    Once the initial application of lubricant on the rings is gone, within the first several shots, there isn't anymore placed onto those rings until the next time you lube.

    Continuing with your engine analogy - generally engines run at several thousand RPM's -which means that inside the course of one hour of operation they have reciprocated several times more than the AR bolt will in a normal lifetime.

    IMO, not a good analogy. I lube my rings for initial assembly and after cleaning because in my view it doesn't hurt anything. Beyond that, I don't dump lube into the vent holes.
    Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President... - Theodore Roosevelt, Lincoln and Free Speech, Metropolitan Magazine, Volume 47, Number 6, May 1918.

    Every Communist must grasp the truth. Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. Our principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party Mao Zedong, 6 November, 1938 - speech to the Communist Patry of China's sixth Central Committee

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clint View Post
    Interestingly, LSA is actually a very lightweight grease.

    It's only taken 50 years to "rediscover" the benefits of lubricating with grease in the AR.
    Before switching to LSA, I did some research into exactly what it is. This is from some online posts and sources.
    _________________________________

    I have pulled the Mil Spec for LSA and found something unusual: it is a product spec not a performance spec and has a specified composition:

    Lithium stearate
    Bis sebacate
    Di Isopropyl phosphate
    2,6 di tertiary butly-p-cresol
    Barium dinonylnapthanlene sufonate

    I have looked at a couple of the chemical compounds, will search for information on the others. I don�t know if this lubricant has been superseded over time by other formulations or not. Manufacturer advertisements always claim to the latest and greatest, but don�t provide any meaningful data or comparisons.

    Last edited by SlamFire; 09/27/17 12:28 PM.

    _______________________________
    Here is what I found googling the ingredients.


    Lithium stearate
    Lithium stearate is a chemical compound with the formula LiO₂C(CH₂)₁₆CH₃. It is formally classified as a soap. Lithium stearate is a white soft solid, prepared by the reaction of lithium hydroxide and stearic acid. Lithium stearate and lithium 12-hydroxystearate are lithium soaps, and are components of lithium grease.

    Bis Sebacate
    Dioctyl sebacate (CH₂)₈(COOC₈H₁₇)₂, or di sebacate, is an organic compound which is the diester of sebacic acid and 2-ethylhexanol. It is an oily colorless liquid and is used as a plasticizer, most commonly in C4. It has also found use in Dot 5 brake fluid.
    Plasticizers (UK: plasticisers) or dispersants are additives that increase the plasticity or decrease the viscosity of a material. These are the substances which are added in order to alter their physical properties. These are either liquids with low volatility or solids. They decrease the attraction between polymer chains to make them more flexible. Over the last 60 years more than 30,000 different substances have been evaluated for their plasticizing properties. Of these, only a small number – approximately 50 – are today in commercial use. The dominant applications are for plastics, especially polyvinyl chloride (PVC). The properties of other materials may also be modified when blended with plasticizers including concrete, clays, and related products. According to 2014 data, the total global market for plasticizers was 8.4 million metric tonnes [1] including 1.3 million metric tonnes in Europe.

    Di Isopropyl phosphate
    Phosphate esters, thiophosphate esters and metal thiophosphates have been used as lubricant additives for over 50 years. While their use has been extensive, a detailed knowledge of how they work has been a much more recent development. In this paper, the use of phosphate esters and thiophosphate esters as anti-wear or extreme pressure additives is reviewed with an emphasis on their mechanism of action.

    2,6 di tertiary butly-p-cresol
    Butylated hydroxytoluene, also known as dibutylhydroxytoluene, is a lipophilic organic compound, chemically a derivative of phenol, that is useful for its antioxidant properties.

    Barium dinonylnapthanlene sufonate
    Barium dinonylnaphthalene sulfonate uses and applications include: Rust and corrosion inhibitor; acid neutralizer; stabilizer used in metalworking lubricants,

    _________________________
    Perhaps the antirust/anticorrosion ingredients might help preserve the chrome inside the bolt, I do not know, but if so it could be wiped in with a paper towel and then wiped back out leaving only a film to protect it in storage. I really don't even know it this is a problem.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomMcC View Post
    It's a machine with metal to metal contact at multiple points. I lube it fairly generously. Never really had a prob. Whatever happened to the idea of running it wet.
    I agree, I tend to keep mine on the "wet" side as well...how they had us do it when I was in the Marines too, but that was a long time ago, and maybe they do it a little different now.
    Good night Chesty...wherever you are.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfmoonclip View Post
    I'm still using some 'liberated' from my old unit,and I haven't looked...is LSA available commercially?
    No use mentioning what we called it...
    Moon
    ETA-actually just ordered some, tho' it was thin on the ground.
    M
    https://www.rothco.com/product/gi-lsa-weapons-oil

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