NO lube on bolt/rings as per FN manual?

[halfmoonclip]

Thanks, LMT.
Moon

[Clint]

Everyone here is familiar with and most likely supports the notion of "using the right tool for the job".

The more I look into this whole AR lubrication issue, the clearer it becomes.


Using oil in the AR platform is akin to using a socket wrench to pound nails.

Sure, the socket wrench is a great tool when used to tighten nuts and bolts.


When it comes to pounding nails, the socket wrench CAN work (especially if applied generously ), but is clearly NOT the best tool for the job; the hammer is.

Grease for the AR is like the hammer for nails, the right tool for the job.

[Disciple]

Grease for the AR is like the hammer for nails, the right tool for the job.

Do you consider TW25B acceptable?

[R0CKETMAN]

Everyone here is familiar with and most likely supports the notion of "using the right tool for the job".

The more I look into this whole AR lubrication issue, the clearer it becomes.


Using oil in the AR platform is akin to using a socket wrench to pound nails.

Sure, the socket wrench is a great tool when used to tighten nuts and bolts.


When it comes to pounding nails, the socket wrench CAN work (especially if applied generously ), but is clearly NOT the best tool for the job; the hammer is.

Grease for the AR is like the hammer for nails, the right tool for the job.

In all operating temps?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LMT/556]

I tried TW25 on the rails but switched back to LP, this was with an interior bore coating of one shot. It seemed to dry out quicker than I liked, gummy with firing residue.

[ST911]

Everyone here is familiar with and most likely supports the notion of "using the right tool for the job".
The more I look into this whole AR lubrication issue, the clearer it becomes.
Using oil in the AR platform is akin to using a socket wrench to pound nails.
Sure, the socket wrench is a great tool when used to tighten nuts and bolts.
When it comes to pounding nails, the socket wrench CAN work (especially if applied generously ), but is clearly NOT the best tool for the job; the hammer is.
Grease for the AR is like the hammer for nails, the right tool for the job.

I'm not sure about that comparison. A socket wrench and hammer are both handtools, each intended for a job with a particular fastener and method of operation. Oil and grease are both lubricants, and substantially more interchangeable than those handtools. Oil and grease are both hammers, though one could be a ball-peen and the other a claw.

And how do we reconcile that with oil's legacy of decades of successfully lubricating guns without ill effect?

I unpacked a new rifle, lathered the bcg, and shot a few thousand rounds through it without further care. Now at ~10k rounds in an oil-based lube regimen, it remains in service. What am I missing?

[Clint]

With an appropriate grade and temperature rating, sure.

Keep in mind, the lightweight greases most suitable for ARs are much thinner (like a sun tan lotion) than the familiar automotive type greases.

ETA:
The "greatest battle implement ever devised", the M1 Garand, was engineered to be lubricated almost exclusively with grease and was highly reliable within the temperature range capability of the issued grease.

The grease technology available at that time (mineral oil with calcium soap thickener) was limited to around -10F minimum operating temperature.

Unfortunately for our war fighters during the Korean conflict, conditions dipped down to -36F, causing serious malfunctions.

Modern synthetic greases can be formulated to allow operation down to -60F or more.

In all operating temps?

[jbjh]

I know that this thread is about lubing the rings specifically, but unless something has changed in the collective knowledge base, I’ll continue to follow the advice of Pat Rogers (R.I.P.);

http://www.slip2000.com/blog/s-w-a-t...rbine-running/

“The bolt itself requires a coating of oil, paying particular attention to the bolt rings and the lugs. Those bolt rings function just like the piston rings in your car engine. How long do you think your ride would last without lube?
...

I advise shooters that during the chow break they should place a few drops of oil into those two gas ports on the right side of the bolt carrier. The lube will get into the gas rings located handily nearby and keep your gun running smoothly.”

Back in my IPSC/3-Gun days, I was leery of using too much lube, having been told as a teen that it attracts dirt. I also used to clean the living hell out of my guns.

My AR ran “ok”, but wasn’t 100%. I’m sure some of that had to do with configuration and ammo, but it didn’t help that I under-lubed it. Looking back, I remember my malfunctions happening in latter stages, where the early stages of the day typically went well.

Later on, when I reconfigured the gun as a more HD-oriented gun, minor problems persisted, but I chalked it up to ARs being ARs. Guns have malfunctions, right? What I didn’t understand was that mine was having a lot of malfunctions. I had always heard guys talking about them jamming. I mean isn’t that what drove the growth is piston ARs? Because the D.I. system wasn’t reliable?

Iraq and Afghanistan changed stuff. Tons of data from combat in harsh conditions started pouring in. And that data changed a lot of things.

Rails aren’t useless toys. Red dots work. The D.I. system isn’t inherently unreliable. 5.56 isn’t a weakling round unsuited to combat.

About the time I joined this site and started learning a lot more about the AR platform, SWAT magazine published Pat Rogers’ article above. It fundamentally changed the way I looked at cleaning and lubing weapons systems. Since that article, and running my ARs wet (but not dripping), I can honestly say that I cannot remember a malfunction that was gun related.

Anecdotal? Yup. I’m not a high-volume shooter anymore. But in my experience over 25 years of having done both ways, I’ll keep lubing my gun up very well.

And that includes the rings.


Sent from 80ms in the future

[Clint]

A little more info in oil vs grease:

https://www.cenex.com/about/cenex-in...ncy%20of%20oil.
The biggest difference setting grease apart from oil is its thickener.
Grease is a thickened oil, not a thicker oil.
The thickener within a grease acts as a sponge, holding the base oil and the additives together.
This creates a grease’s semi-fluid or solid structure, as opposed to the syrup-like consistency of oil.
This added thickener is crucial when it comes to the applications where grease is needed.

Oil and grease are both lubricants, and substantially more interchangeable than those handtools. Oil and grease are both hammers, though one could be a ball-peen and the other a claw.

All weapons need lubrication and any lube is better than no lube.

However, oil requires more frequent and more generous application to maintain function than grease.

Oil burns up, drains away and allows friction contaminates direct access to the wear surfaces.

Oil can and does work, but is not the BEST tool for the job.

And how do we reconcile that with oil's legacy of decades of successfully lubricating guns without ill effect?

I unpacked a new rifle, lathered the bcg, and shot a few thousand rounds through it without further care. Now at ~10k rounds in an oil-based lube regimen, it remains in service. What am I missing?

[ColtSeavers]