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Thread: I want a short 6.5 Gas Gun

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggammell View Post
    A complete build from citizen arms outside your parameters for “factory gun”?
    Not sure how I missed this post. I can't recommend Steve's work enough. He can build a gun that will do exactly what you spec it do. He's absolutely amazing. Well worth the 4-5 month wait time in line.

  2. #12
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    I currently am shooting a Savage MSR10 in 6.5 CM at my local accurized AR matches. Unfortunately to get the gun reliable I had to get my local smith to work it over as Savage was completely incompetent at making a factory rifle semi auto. If I had to do it all over again and wanted a higher quality piece; I would look at the Larue ultimate upper kits, and have my local smith finish building it. If you HAD to make it matching; Larue even sells the Lower you can have sent to an FFL. I just played with the options, and the 18" 6.5 CM is under $1200.

    https://www.larue.com/products/larue...5cm-upper-kit/

    With all that said, I am happy with where my MSR10 is now as a rifle. It has been 100% reliable for the last 3 matches; totaling around 300 rounds. I just recently shot this group with Hornady 140 ELDM. Also the lower group is 140 FMJ from Seller bellot. Thats the typical fodder that I feed it for matches as its cheap and accurate enough. My tube seems to be fast swell because the Hornady 140 ELDM's average 2630 FPS from a 18" barrel.

    Tactical Nylon Micro Brewery

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurodriver View Post
    Is going 6.5 on a barrel that is 16-18" worth it over .308? I will most likely just shoot factory ammo out of this gun so caliber doesn't really matter too much. I know 6.5 blows .308 out of the water at 20" and beyond, but are the ballistics for a 16"-18" barrel much different?
    As the caliber gets smaller the velocity loss is greater as the barrel is shortened. So a .338 Federal will loose less than .308 while the 6.5 CM will loose more. Even so the wind drift is better for the smaller caliber, and most of us are better at dialing range than reading wind.

    Rifle availability with a 16" is probably a bigger concern than the caliber with your use.

  4. #14
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    Yeah in stock seems to be an issue for many items right now. Good luck brother!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eurodriver View Post
    Yeah like that, except in stock and ready to buy is what I’m looking for.

    It seems there are lots of reports of MWS not running well suppressed. Is that true?
    ETC (SW/AW), USN (1998-2008)
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  5. #15
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    LMT and KAC are your only viable options at this point, and you will have to cut down the barrel. Good luck finding anything in stock.

    Centurion is supposed to get into the 308 and 6.5 game. Maybe shoot Monty an email...

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurodriver View Post
    Yeah like that, except in stock and ready to buy is what IÂ’m looking for.

    It seems there are lots of reports of MWS not running well suppressed. Is that true?
    That all depends on the can. I have shot 5 different barrels on my MWS and have experienced the following.

    The mid length gassed, 13.5 SS and 16 CL could be considered over-gassed and are sensitive to what can you run. When I ran my full length Gemtech GMT-300WM can, both barrels experienced malfunctions and increased recoil. When Paired with a low pressure Sandman K, Both barrels were flawless.

    The Rifle length gas systems in the 18 SS, 20 CL, and 20 6.5CM, have not exhibited the same issues when paired with my full size can.

    So it all depends on what can you may run.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurodriver View Post

    Questions:

    Who makes a quality factory 6.5 Gas Gun in 16-18"? What models are available?

    Is going 6.5 on a barrel that is 16-18" worth it over .308? I will most likely just shoot factory ammo out of this gun so caliber doesn't really matter too much. I know 6.5 blows .308 out of the water at 20" and beyond, but are the ballistics for a 16"-18" barrel much different?
    While not released yet, both LMT and KAC have short 6.5's in the pipeline. Not sure what the option is for short 6.5's from the factory is at the moment.

    As for your second question, KAC has kind of answered this question with their 14.5" 6.5cm guns. They are essentially getting the same performance down range performance as on their 20" M110's. Jack passed along a velocity range of Getting around 2465-2485 with 130-140gr bullets.

    If you compare that to your average 2500ish velocity from you care seeing from most 16 inch 308 gas guns shooting shooting 175 class bullets, it really does not make sense shooting 308 from if ones main priority is bullet efficiency.

    Running super generic numbers
    a 16 inch 308, shooting 178's at 2500 will go subsonic around 1000 and have around 3.1 Mils of wind at 10mph
    a 20 inch m110, shooting 178's at 2600, might get you an extra 50 yards of so befor going subsonic but at 1000 will have 2.88 mils of wind.
    a 14.5, 6.5cm , shooting 140's even at conservative 2400, will go subsonic at the same point as the longer M110, but only have 2.57 mils of wind.

    Thats over a foot at 1000. Getting in the 2525 range with a 16 inch barrel should not be too difficult to accomplish.

    I have toyed around with the idea of cutting back my 20 inch 6.5 barrel to 16 inches


    Last edited by m4hk33; 07-20-20 at 01:01.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by m4hk33 View Post
    While not released yet, both LMT and KAC have short 6.5's in the pipeline. Not sure what the option is for short 6.5's from the factory is at the moment.

    As for your second question, KAC has kind of answered this question with their 14.5" 6.5cm guns. They are essentially getting the same performance down range performance as on their 20" M110's. Jack passed along a velocity range of Getting around 2465-2485 with 130-140gr bullets.

    If you compare that to your average 2500ish velocity from you care seeing from most 16 inch 308 gas guns shooting shooting 175 class bullets, it really does not make sense shooting 308 from if ones main priority is bullet efficiency.

    Running super generic numbers
    a 16 inch 308, shooting 178's at 2500 will go subsonic around 1000 and have around 3.1 Mils of wind at 10mph
    a 20 inch m110, shooting 178's at 2600, might get you an extra 50 yards of so befor going subsonic but at 1000 will have 2.88 mils of wind.
    a 14.5, 6.5cm , shooting 140's even at conservative 2400, will go subsonic at the same point as the longer M110, but only have 2.57 mils of wind.

    Thats over a foot at 1000. Getting in the 2525 range with a 16 inch barrel should not be too difficult to accomplish.

    I have toyed around with the idea of cutting back my 20 inch 6.5 barrel to 16 inches


    One of the problems when we make that comparison is everybody is choosing the latest and greatest hot-rod 6.5 bullet to old .308 bullets from 30 years ago. There are better bullets in .308 that somewhat evens the playing field. Unfortunately, you’ve got to go to a boutique maker if you aren’t a hand loader because it isn’t mass loaded. There was a thread on Sniper’s Hide a while back which reports of 12.5” .308s getting 2450 with 155 Lapuas Scenars. Running that load next to the 130 gr Berger 6.5 at 2450, it seemed to be a wash, certainly, as barrels get longer and the 140s go faster and faster, the 6.5 Creedmoor BC really takes over.


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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by PracticalRifleman View Post
    One of the problems when we make that comparison is everybody is choosing the latest and greatest hot-rod 6.5 bullet to old .308 bullets from 30 years ago. There are better bullets in .308 that somewhat evens the playing field. Unfortunately, you’ve got to go to a boutique maker if you aren’t a hand loader because it isn’t mass loaded. There was a thread on Sniper’s Hide a while back which reports of 12.5” .308s getting 2450 with 155 Lapuas Scenars. Running that load next to the 130 gr Berger 6.5 at 2450, it seemed to be a wash, certainly, as barrels get longer and the 140s go faster and faster, the 6.5 Creedmoor BC really takes over.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    True. People are going to use the numbers that make the strongest case for what they like. Just have to remember to take everything online with a grain of salt. I don't take the numbers the Jack post as gospel, but give some of the data/chronos that I have seen posted for 16 and 18 inch bolt guns, those numbers seem plausible.

    Honestly, with modern projectiles and powders, I think both 6.5 and 30 cal bullets to much better from shorter barrels than previously believed, and depending on where you are shooting, a shorter barrel may or may not make sense for your situation. BC have increased and when i started shooting and loading 178 AMAX's, My 20 inch gas gun load would go subsonic around 950. Today, I can get 178 ELD-s to 950 from a 13.5 inch barrel and that is not really hammering the brass.

    I don't think that the 6.5 is a magical round, but I do feel that it is more efficient.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by m4hk33 View Post
    True. People are going to use the numbers that make the strongest case for what they like. Just have to remember to take everything online with a grain of salt. I don't take the numbers the Jack post as gospel, but give some of the data/chronos that I have seen posted for 16 and 18 inch bolt guns, those numbers seem plausible.

    Honestly, with modern projectiles and powders, I think both 6.5 and 30 cal bullets to much better from shorter barrels than previously believed, and depending on where you are shooting, a shorter barrel may or may not make sense for your situation. BC have increased and when i started shooting and loading 178 AMAX's, My 20 inch gas gun load would go subsonic around 950. Today, I can get 178 ELD-s to 950 from a 13.5 inch barrel and that is not really hammering the brass.

    I don't think that the 6.5 is a magical round, but I do feel that it is more efficient.
    Indeed you’re certainly right. An interesting data point from a few years back; I don’t remember if it was a PRS match or an F-Class match, but a gentleman shooting next to me was doing a rather impressive job. I asked him what wind he has held on that 800 yard target, seeing that he was shooting .308 Winchester. I just knew he was holding much more for wind than my .260 with 140 Bergers. As it turned out, he was holding a tenth less.

    It turned out his 28” .308 was shooting a .630 BC 200 gr Berger just shy of 2900 FPS.

    My 26” .260 was firing a .612 BC 140 at 2830.


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