PCC comparison and questions thread

[JoshNC]

So are you guys saying the hk mp9 is still better than the b&t?

I’ve used the mp5 several times since the 80s and at several points in time almost bought one back when they were like $5000 and then $18000 (a k model and an sd model) (but I bought an m60 and registered AR lower instead). I love the guns from a collector pov but i never warmed up to using them practically. Lots of PD still have them stuffed in lockers and drag them to the range occasionally. Several guys who use them for work used to dog them as unreliable. I mean for usability I’d take my semi auto scorpion micro suppressed over a semi auto hk suppressed. So I was expecting you guys to say the b&t is way better than the mp5. If that’s not the case then I’m definitely not interested.


Don’t get me wrong. I appreciate refinement and quality. Heck my daily carry for ten years was a Wilson combat super grade compact. But no matter how well it fit together and how crisp the trigger was and nice the hand checkering and stippling was, I get hits faster with a $500 plastic gun so that’s what I carry now.

Have you guys shot the b&t vs hk vs scorpion on the clock? If you tell me the b&t is faster and more reliable I’ll believe you. But stuff like the straight mags makes me skeptical

Thanks for the thoughtful responses

The b&t APC9 Pro wins over the MP5 in my opinion due to the better ergonomics, last round bolt catch, and optic mounting capabilities.

[The Rat]

The b&t APC9 Pro wins over the MP5 in my opinion due to the better ergonomics, last round bolt catch, and optic mounting capabilities.

I agree with this and sold my Z5P to fund an APC9 Pro. Now if only the eForm 1 would clear. Been pending since 5/11, the 'ask the experts' email says it's in delay status pending FBI background checks.



I gotta say though, this thing is phenomenal at banging up steel at night under nods.

[dlrflyer]

Good thread.

Other than what I've found out online I know very little about PCC/PDW's, I did get to handle a reasonably priced Micro Scorpion the other day at the LGS and let it get away because I couldn't make a $1200 decision, I just don't know enough about them.

At this point I'm considering the 8" Scorpion and modifying it with HB parts to my liking or the CMMG 9mm but I think I want it with the 8" barrel for both real estate and velocity. The Banshee 300 with the 5" looks good. The wife and I have medium to small hands but I don't see enough room there for a flash light. Trying to put together an 8" CMMG might be a challenge with this market. I haven't ruled out the 5", there might be a light solution I'm not aware of.

The 8" Scorpion seems easier to find at the moment. I'm stuck with 15 rnd., mag limit for the time being whichever way I go. I'd cough up the extra cash for a B&T if it was really worth it.

Reliable feeding of hollow points is a must. If it isn't a 99% reliable self defense option I'm not interested. I've decided not to go less than 16" with 5.56 AR's w/o a suppressor, so AR15 5.56 pistol isn't an option.

Another issue I'm struggling with is do I really need it? Husband and wife home and possible vehicle defense and range use, we're just outside a large metro area which we both travel through for business purposes. Something that would fold or collapse into a 20" backpack type of PDW.

Putting a light on a 5”Banshee, I think my choice is an Inforce WML mounted at 12, at end of rail. Leave a little space behind it, then add front buis. This allows for a c-clamp hold. The short sight radius is no big deal because you will use a red dot of some kind anyway.

[markm]

half way there

Are you just replying to every single thread on this sight with worthless responses?

[JediGuy]

Are you just replying to every single thread on this sight with worthless responses?

Yes..

[call_me_ski]

Must have something he needs to sell quickly...

[HKGuns]

Looks like he got Arkansided.

[RetroRevolver77]

delete

[SteyrAUG]

I can mount an optic on an MP5. Last round bolt hold open is over rated as I can reload before I'm empty if needed. So basically it's a got a bolt catch. Not sure if it's worth dumping proven MP5's over something that is relatively new and not widely distributed.

Next Gen MP5s had a last round bolt hold open and if HK wasn't trying to discontinue the MP5 series they'd have made a Gen II MP5 in 9mm. But they wanted to move onto the UMP, unfortunately for them almost nobody gave a damn about the UMP, especially after they shot one.

HK could have easily also incorporated a top rail onto the MP5 either going the Swiss San route (similar to the MSG90) or with a little more direct welding like the PSG1. Would have been easy, but back in the late 60s they were making a mass production SMG and optics and features like a last round bolt hold open weren't really what subguns (especially euro subguns) were about.

The MP5 is a victim of it's own success in that it is still a viable platform 50 years later. It really is a shame they didn't go into production with the MP5/45 with a dedicated magazine, last round bolt hold open (like we saw with the 10 and 40) and a top rail solution. But they were in development of their SMG I and SMG II and with the success of the Mark 23 / USP series of handguns they were fully committed to bringing in the next generation polymer SMG which would become the UMP which had ALL of those features.

HK actively tried to retire the MP5 on several occasions, when they finally stopped making the G3 and all of it's derivative models they really only had the HK 53 and the MP5 as legacy "stamped receiver / roller bolt" guns. I think the 53 may still be in production but I'm not certain.

[Eurodriver]

I can mount an optic on an MP5. Last round bolt hold open is over rated as I can reload before I'm empty if needed. So basically it's a got a bolt catch. Not sure if it's worth dumping proven MP5's over something that is relatively new and not widely distributed.

The APC9 series is over ten years old and used by quite a few LEA’s and the US Army.

Everything is going to be “relatively new” compared to the MP5.