PCC comparison and questions thread

[taliv]

has anyone done "the chart" that compares popular PCC, scorpion, stribog A1/A3, B&T etc?

I'm wondering why some guns like the B&T APC9K pro seem to have a mystique but on paper look kinda crappy. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not delayed blowback, much less roller delayed, right? it uses straight instead of curved mags. it looks like the barrel is really high compared to the grip, which would cause it to rotate in recoil more than competitors that let you get a "higher grip". the ergos for support hand look suboptimal, with the square mag well and in the review videos most people seem to have the tips of their fingers almost overlapping the ejection port. and the controls look proprietary unlike say the scorpion that you can run like an ar15 or an mp5.

but i still want one lol

granted, you usually have to make compromises to get a micro or "kompact" version, which is what i'd be interested in, but is there something i'm missing that justifies the price?

the stribog is very reasonably priced, and it looks like the A3 version is delayed, but I wonder what reliability is like, given the malfunctions in some of the videos.

has anyone worn any of these out yet? i'm a few thousand rounds into a scorpion micro, which is fantastic, but looks somewhat larger than the B&T. I wonder what parts will fail first. I like it so much i feel like I should buy another just for backup/parts gun. i did order some repair parts just in case. pins, springs and buffer.


if you were making a chart, what would you put on it?
size would be a nice start, since most of the ads for these don't say how large they are

[SteyrAUG]

B&T is a high grade, high QC manufacturer. Striborg not so much.

Also "features" don't equate to quality, A Colt 9mm SBR is straight blowback, a bunch of substandard HK clones are "roller delayed", but that don't make them as good as HK or even a Colt blowback.

There's not a chart so far as I know. But keep in mind the AR chart had nothing to do with "features", it was specifications. You seem to want to create a features chart which will do nothing to separate the quality and reliable from everything else.

As an example my XCR has a lot of cool features, and as a concept gun I enjoy it. But it might be the last thing I'd grab for any kind of HD scenario. It is a very unproven weapon system.

[RetroRevolver77]

Delete.

[taliv]

I already have a scorpion micro with Osprey that I’ve shot a few thousand rounds through since beginning of the year. I love it. My question is ultimately do I also need a b&t and stribog etc.

I’ve used mp5 a lot (including FoF) but I’m not really a huge fan of them. I had an hk ump in 45 and liked it but eventually sold it. Also had ps90.

I don’t really want to make a chart myself. Lol I’m too lazy. I’m not trying to debate the difference between specs and features. I just want a compare and contrast. How are these guns different?

What makes b&t high grade?

[taliv]

Obligatory pics

Took the peq off since then and replaced it with the streamlight IR light and laser

[Eurodriver]

What makes b&t high grade?

Same thing that makes anything high grade.

Quality of manufacturing. Materials. QC. Known reliability/accuracy.

I own an APC9 Pro and an APC9k Pro (and some others)

My buddy has a Scorpion.

They are the “same” in the same way Noveske and PSA AR15s are the “same”. They both make 9mm sized holes where you point them. They are both blow back. They are both relatively similar in size and weight (the B&T 9k is significantly smaller though than everything)

The Scorpion looks and feels and in some ways behaves like it costs $1,200 less than the B&T.

Some people just like having nice things. It’s what keeps Aston Martin and Louis Vuitton in business when a Hyundai or a Walmart purse will do the “same” thing.

[Pappabear]

Duplicate post ?

[Pappabear]

I went through the same mental process. The gun is smooth as silk to me. Pull the bolt back and it’s smooth, very smooth. I never noticed the higher grip angle and never felt it. Me and my buddy that has every sub gun on the planet did a sub gun fest. All were more similar than different, but you can see and feel the quality of the APC over the cheaper counter parts. I did a thread on it with pics somewhere on here. Everything ran 100%.

My buddy prefers the K versions of all sub guns but usually buys both. No kids ! I bought Pro longer barrel. After shooting and looking at mine, he was like yours really isn’t that much bigger.

I’d like to get the 45, but money doesn’t grow in trees in my hood. Good luck with your decision.

PB

[JediGuy]

I got a Stribog, but at this point I could only recommend as a toy. They are still working out the magazine, and until that is rock solid, it isn’t a good proposition for most people. Why? If you need only one gun that works because that’s all the money you have, then this isn’t it yet. If you have enough money to waste on a toy that doesn’t have to work all the time, you probably also have enough to buy something that costs more but has better construction, materials, or design.

I’m not disappointed in the purchase, but it wasn’t my wisest. The magazine problems are known, but I didn’t realize how common before I picked up the Stribog. We’ll see how mine do.

The comparison of Aston Martin to Hyundai is more fair than Noveske to PSA. Assuming the new mags work all the time, it’s more KAC (B&T) to BCM (Grand Power). Just my not-poor but fairly-cheap opinion.

[HardToHandle]

Same thing that makes anything high grade.
Some people just like having nice things. It’s what keeps Aston Martin and Louis Vuitton in business when a Hyundai or a Walmart purse will do the “same” thing.

I have five PCC/braced pistols. I am still looking for perfect, but Eurodriver nailed it - refinement costs. Some folks will pay the price, some will not.

I have one straight blowback 9mm AR that is almost roller delayed smooth. That was a pricey custom AR pistol to build, but exceeded my expectations. That said, you can spend $150 more and get a roller delayed blowback HK clone.