PCC comparison and questions thread

[Ron3]

I've given up for now on the PCC holy grail.

Focusing on shotguns again lately.

Rifle > Shotgun > Pistol. No place for a PCC at this time for me. (I just realized my time training and practicing has actually been pistol, then shotgun, then rifle)

As for a PCC for fun plinking, a .22 lr does it cheaper.

[JoshNC]

There is no “perfect” PCC/SMG. There are pros and cons to all. Like all things, internet “research” is a poor substitute for hands-on experience with these things. You won’t go wrong with an HK SP5 or SP5K or B&T APC series, albeit at greater expense than other options. I personally hate the straight blowback Colt 635 iterations. The Stribog is not yet ready for prime time, though the new a1 delayed blowback and steel reinforced feedlip magazine may be the ticket - buy one and find out for yourself, if you don’t like it you can sell it.

One sleeper that doesn’t get enough mention is the Cmmg radially delayed blowback 9mm. It’s very smooth shooting, feels subjectively similar to a full-size mp5 with the right spring and buffer combo, and runs reliably with MEAN Endomags. We have some that are run on fullauto lowers and they are great. You’re better off buying the bolt group and barrel, building on an Aero XL ejection port upper with your rail du jour vs buying a complete upper from cmmg.

[ccosby]

Just get an HK MP5. Sure it's expensive but it's the most widely distributed and easiest to acquire spare parts. It's essentially the standard.

At the end of the day there is a reason its still considered the gold standard. Its reliability is proven and nothing else I've shot is as smooth. The Sig MPX comes close though.

Honestly is sig hadn't screwed up the mpx with qc issues and well lack of parts that were promised it could be a contender. I've heard of people having issues with the piston system but never had the issue with mine.

Edit: Now if PCS could ever finish their axis system it could have some great potential. Modern MP5 using the roller lock setup but with billet aluminium receiver that you can caliber convert. Uses the hk roller lock trigger pack which means that style safety but they have atf approval for sear owners so yea. Later versions of the prototype are using ump mags so it can support last round hold open. Gun is convertible from a k config to full size too. On the early lowers with mp5 mags he had it drop free as well.

[hotrodder636]

I have 2 B&T PCCs, the APC9 Pro and the KH9. My comparison to other things would be similar to how Euro describe LV and Walmart but I was going to use watches: you have nice Swiss watches like Patek Phillips (B&T) vs Stribog/Scorpion (Tavg Heuer). Nice things are nicer and cost money.

[dlrflyer]

I have a CMMG Banshee, so far it’s my fave. I have the 5” barreled pistol. To be honest, I don’t think it’s recoil is that light, but I haven’t tuned it either. But one thing it definitely is, is light. It is maybe 4 1/2lbs. I also dig the AR controls. And while the angled magwell needed for Glock mags kinda sucks, I appreciate being able to share mags with my Glocks. It allowed me to get rid of those Scorpions and a Beretta Storm. I’ll be putting up for sale a B&T GHM9 I never fired...that’s how much I like my Banshee.

[taliv]

So are you guys saying the hk mp9 is still better than the b&t?

I’ve used the mp5 several times since the 80s and at several points in time almost bought one back when they were like $5000 and then $18000 (a k model and an sd model) (but I bought an m60 and registered AR lower instead). I love the guns from a collector pov but i never warmed up to using them practically. Lots of PD still have them stuffed in lockers and drag them to the range occasionally. Several guys who use them for work used to dog them as unreliable. I mean for usability I’d take my semi auto scorpion micro suppressed over a semi auto hk suppressed. So I was expecting you guys to say the b&t is way better than the mp5. If that’s not the case then I’m definitely not interested.


Don’t get me wrong. I appreciate refinement and quality. Heck my daily carry for ten years was a Wilson combat super grade compact. But no matter how well it fit together and how crisp the trigger was and nice the hand checkering and stippling was, I get hits faster with a $500 plastic gun so that’s what I carry now.

Have you guys shot the b&t vs hk vs scorpion on the clock? If you tell me the b&t is faster and more reliable I’ll believe you. But stuff like the straight mags makes me skeptical

Thanks for the thoughtful responses

[Eurodriver]

I think you’re overthinking things.

I am faster with the B&T APC9 Pro than I am with an HK SP5 but that’s only because I shoot it more often and it has better ergos and an Aimpoint T1.

Both are dead nuts reliable. Too many people using clones/US made shit/non HK mags on MP5s for me to base any decisions on how they performed 40 years ago.

[MountainRaven]

I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone who has actually used an MP5 complain about it (except when they wished they had a rifle).

You don’t become king of the subguns by having shit reliability when the competition are Uzis and Colts (both straight blowback operated subguns using double-stack, double-position feed magazines).

[Jitterbug]

Good thread.

Other than what I've found out online I know very little about PCC/PDW's, I did get to handle a reasonably priced Micro Scorpion the other day at the LGS and let it get away because I couldn't make a $1200 decision, I just don't know enough about them.

At this point I'm considering the 8" Scorpion and modifying it with HB parts to my liking or the CMMG 9mm but I think I want it with the 8" barrel for both real estate and velocity. The Banshee 300 with the 5" looks good. The wife and I have medium to small hands but I don't see enough room there for a flash light. Trying to put together an 8" CMMG might be a challenge with this market. I haven't ruled out the 5", there might be a light solution I'm not aware of.

The 8" Scorpion seems easier to find at the moment. I'm stuck with 15 rnd., mag limit for the time being whichever way I go. I'd cough up the extra cash for a B&T if it was really worth it.

Reliable feeding of hollow points is a must. If it isn't a 99% reliable self defense option I'm not interested. I've decided not to go less than 16" with 5.56 AR's w/o a suppressor, so AR15 5.56 pistol isn't an option.

Another issue I'm struggling with is do I really need it? Husband and wife home and possible vehicle defense and range use, we're just outside a large metro area which we both travel through for business purposes. Something that would fold or collapse into a 20" backpack type of PDW.

[Vegas]

Interesting thread. Having shot MP5’s, albeit clones, Blowback AR9’s, MPX’s and Scorpion’s, the MPX was the standout for me. There’s definitely a B&T in my future tho. Probably an APC9K for extra handiness.