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Thread: PCC comparison and questions thread

  1. #31
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    The MP5 is the 1911 of subguns, with all the positive and negative connotations that come with it.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by taliv View Post
    So are you guys saying the hk mp9 is still better than the b&t?

    I’ve used the mp5 several times since the 80s and at several points in time almost bought one back when they were like $5000 and then $18000 (a k model and an sd model) (but I bought an m60 and registered AR lower instead). I love the guns from a collector pov but i never warmed up to using them practically. Lots of PD still have them stuffed in lockers and drag them to the range occasionally. Several guys who use them for work used to dog them as unreliable. I mean for usability I’d take my semi auto scorpion micro suppressed over a semi auto hk suppressed. So I was expecting you guys to say the b&t is way better than the mp5. If that’s not the case then I’m definitely not interested.


    Don’t get me wrong. I appreciate refinement and quality. Heck my daily carry for ten years was a Wilson combat super grade compact. But no matter how well it fit together and how crisp the trigger was and nice the hand checkering and stippling was, I get hits faster with a $500 plastic gun so that’s what I carry now.

    Have you guys shot the b&t vs hk vs scorpion on the clock? If you tell me the b&t is faster and more reliable I’ll believe you. But stuff like the straight mags makes me skeptical

    Thanks for the thoughtful responses
    Magazines. MP5 wins. Hands down.

    B&T is great, except for their plastic mags. Their mags are good, but simply lack a commendable 55 year track record of H&K steel.
    As the owner of both systems, I just have considerably more trust in the H&K execution.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron3 View Post
    As for a PCC for fun plinking, a .22 lr does it cheaper.
    I go back and forth on this point. PCC is fun, but all pistol rounds suck for SD, so I’ll go More towards an AR rifle round gun- so that leaves PCC for fun, so why not 22lr at that point?

    That said, an MP5 variant sounds like a hoot.
    The Second Amendment ACKNOWLEDGES our right to own and bear arms that are in common use that can be used for lawful purposes. The arms can be restricted ONLY if subject to historical analogue from the founding era or is dangerous (unsafe) AND unusual.

    It's that simple.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand View Post
    I go back and forth on this point. PCC is fun, but all pistol rounds suck for SD, so I’ll go More towards an AR rifle round gun- so that leaves PCC for fun, so why not 22lr at that point?

    That said, an MP5 variant sounds like a hoot.
    22lr just doesn't do it for me and I have 3 machineguns I can run it in. It just doesn't have enough recoil and yes I know that kinda sounds like a weird thing to complain about. It just doesn't feel like shooting a gun to me. Even the lack of weight in the magazines throws me off. Short of like some target practice of aluminum cans at a farm or something it just doesn't get broken out much. That and lack of magazine capacity in 22lr pistols.

    My m16 with a 22lr upper will get run to hell and back at MG shoots as people enjoy it. I'd rather shoot a subgun or something else though.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by RetroRevolver77 View Post
    I can mount an optic on an MP5. Last round bolt hold open is over rated as I can reload before I'm empty if needed. So basically it's a got a bolt catch. Not sure if it's worth dumping proven MP5's over something that is relatively new and not widely distributed.
    Where did you see me suggest dumping the mp5? I would never do such a thing. I love my mp5s and would never get rid of them. Objectively and in actual use, the APC9 series beats the mp5. From the standpoint of collecting and shooting, the MP5-N is my choice above all other SMGs.
    SLG Defense 07/02 FFL/SOT

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    Next Gen MP5s had a last round bolt hold open and if HK wasn't trying to discontinue the MP5 series they'd have made a Gen II MP5 in 9mm. But they wanted to move onto the UMP, unfortunately for them almost nobody gave a damn about the UMP, especially after they shot one.

    HK could have easily also incorporated a top rail onto the MP5 either going the Swiss San route (similar to the MSG90) or with a little more direct welding like the PSG1. Would have been easy, but back in the late 60s they were making a mass production SMG and optics and features like a last round bolt hold open weren't really what subguns (especially euro subguns) were about.

    The MP5 is a victim of it's own success in that it is still a viable platform 50 years later. It really is a shame they didn't go into production with the MP5/45 with a dedicated magazine, last round bolt hold open (like we saw with the 10 and 40) and a top rail solution. But they were in development of their SMG I and SMG II and with the success of the Mark 23 / USP series of handguns they were fully committed to bringing in the next generation polymer SMG which would become the UMP which had ALL of those features.

    HK actively tried to retire the MP5 on several occasions, when they finally stopped making the G3 and all of it's derivative models they really only had the HK 53 and the MP5 as legacy "stamped receiver / roller bolt" guns. I think the 53 may still be in production but I'm not certain.
    The MP5 should have also been upgraded to a E/G41 type extractor design.
    SLG Defense 07/02 FFL/SOT

  7. #37
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    I have a love for the MP5. I sold a Scorpion Evo to help fund one.

    That being said, if I had to choose a subgun to fight with, the MP5 wouldn't be my choice. The B&T APC or even the GHM9 would be my first choice, with the Sig MPX being the next. While the APC is a blow back gun, it does have recoil mitigation technology in the design that works well. I found it very easy to shoot off rapid strings of fire at moderate distances, 20-50 yards, and still get good repeatable hits on a steel IPSC.
    C co 1/30th Infantry Regiment
    3rd Brigade 3rd Infantry Division
    2002-2006
    OIF 1 and 3

    IraqGunz:
    No dude is going to get shot in the chest at 300 yards and look down and say "What is that, a 3 MOA group?"

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