nitride vs chrome phosphate

[ScottsBad]

Nitride's ease of cleaning and corrosion resistance are undeniable, but the easy button is paying between $120 - $180 for a quality phosphate BCG with a C158 bolt.

Andy

Right, the no-brainer solution is to use the same QUALITY Mil-Spec BCG that has served soldiers well in countless rifles all over the world and proven very reliable.

If you choose a nitride or coated solution you are doing it because its easier to clean.

JMHO

[mig1nc]

Doesn't nitride (or NP3 or TiN for that matter) have higher natural lubricity as well?


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[wanderson]

I run several phosphates, two nitrides and one NiB, haven’t seen any difference in wear.

As mentioned, the quality of the bolt is far more important. I haven’t paid more than $10 more for nitride or $20 more for NiB coatings vs the same brand bolt in phosphate, IMHO any more isn’t worth it.

I think it comes down to wet vs dry. Like to run wet? Phosphate. Dry? Nitride, NiB, or some other slick finish.

The slick finishes do wipe down easier but that’s a very minor plus for them.

Now if I were living in a remote area where I might not have easy access to proper gun lubes, then a slick finish might be an advantage. Or if you wanted to tuck an AR away for 10 years and not worry about lube running off.

I would like to see an apples to apples comparison, like Two identical ARs with a phosphate & nitride Toolcraft BCG. Lube both BCGs up liberally then let em sit out for an hour and let any excess run off. Run em both til one fails.

This isn’t a smart ass question, but why aren’t upper receivers also coated in Nitride/NiB?

[Joe Mamma]

This isn’t a smart ass question, but why aren’t upper receivers also coated in Nitride/NiB?

I think the lack of nitrided uppers is because they are aluminum and not steel. I don't think you can nitride something that is aluminum, but someone please correct me if I am wrong.

I have seen nickel boron and nickel Teflon coated upper receivers. I think they are relatively common.

I guess I am in the minority regarding nitride BCGs. I have developed a slight preference for them over the standard phosphate ones. I think they are easier to clean and more slick, even if they *may* not hold oil as well as a phosphate one.

I also prefer nitride BCGs because the finish is more durable (in theory) than nickel Teflon.

I avoid nickel boron BCGs.

Joe Mamma

[mig1nc]

I run several phosphates, two nitrides and one NiB, haven’t seen any difference in wear.

As mentioned, the quality of the bolt is far more important. I haven’t paid more than $10 more for nitride or $20 more for NiB coatings vs the same brand bolt in phosphate, IMHO any more isn’t worth it.

I think it comes down to wet vs dry. Like to run wet? Phosphate. Dry? Nitride, NiB, or some other slick finish.

The slick finishes do wipe down easier but that’s a very minor plus for them.

Now if I were living in a remote area where I might not have easy access to proper gun lubes, then a slick finish might be an advantage. Or if you wanted to tuck an AR away for 10 years and not worry about lube running off.

I would like to see an apples to apples comparison, like Two identical ARs with a phosphate & nitride Toolcraft BCG. Lube both BCGs up liberally then let em sit out for an hour and let any excess run off. Run em both til one fails.

This isn’t a smart ass question, but why aren’t upper receivers also coated in Nitride/NiB?

With regards to uppers, being aluminum I don't think nitride is really an option, but you do see them with things like cerakote microslick etc...

I think the Geiselle upper has some kinda coating.


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[sinister]

Nitriding a bolt and carrier is a surface treatment. The "Skin" is very hard and nicely polished, but it holds and retains no lubricant. It will move nicer, when clean, because the surfaces are smooth. You still need lubrication.

NP3 is nice because it is a teflon-nickel surface treatment. Teflon is the world's slickest man-made finish. The more the surface is abraded, the more teflon is exposed to lubricate surface-to-surface contact. The problem with NP3 is it will eventually wear. NP3 does not hold oil, either.

Phosphating/parkerizing holds oil in its "Pores" and does wonders for corrosion and rust prevention but not much for lubrication. The chrome-lined bores of GI bolt carriers are for smoothness and rust-corrosion protection.

All AR bolt carriers need to be lubed to ensure proper functioning, especially when dirty. Grease or LSA in the cam pin slot are not blown or heated off like light oils.

Apropos for nothing, try your own side-by-side endurance testing. With four guns (two nitrided, two conventional) run a nitride dry and a nitride sopping wet-lubed and record when the first chokes. Parallel, run a GI dry and a GI wet-lubed.

Both sets should go a while before stopping, but my money's on the wet guns running much longer.

[everready73]

Doesn't nitride (or NP3 or TiN for that matter) have higher natural lubricity as well?


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Yes, but phosphate is more pourous and hold the lube oil better IMO. If it is someone who doesn't keep they're him running wet coated may be better, but I like running them wet

[DG23]

I avoid nickel boron BCGs.

Joe Mamma

Why?

Love the Toolcraft NiB carriers and (Toolcraft supplied) bolts I have.

[mig1nc]

I know this is mega long, but it's more knowledge than I've seen anywhere else on the topic of lubrication: https://youtu.be/Oimwq6QBlzc

You can also listen in Apple Podcast and probably other apps too.


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[Joe Mamma]

I avoid nickel boron BCGs.

Joe Mamma

Why?

Love the Toolcraft NiB carriers and (Toolcraft supplied) bolts I have.

I feel like there is very little upside with nickel boron, and significant downside. Nickel boron looks nice when new, and it's supposed to be a hard and lubricious surface coating that also cleans up easily.

But I found that it isn't that lubricious, and it doesn't clean up very well. You can wipe off carbon, oil, etc. But parts discolor significantly after the first hard use and will never get really clean again. Also, there is a possibility of the coating flaking off which is the biggest downside to me. It might be a "harder" coating, but I'm not sure how much of a benefit that is, and the long term durability is questionable (to me).

Also, as you probably know, nickel boron and nickel Teflon coating change the dimensions of the part being coated. It probably will not make a functional difference, but the possibility it will exists.

One thing I will add with regard to nitride (not nickle boron) finishes, I have seen a wide range of surface roughness in nitrided BCG parts. Some are very smooth and have an almost mirror like finish (like ones I have seen from JP). I have one JP bolt carrier that has about 5k rounds on it, and after giving it a quick wipe down, it could easily be mistaken for new.

Other nitride BCGs have such a rough finish that they could be mistaken for a dark phosphate finish. The appearance isn't really an issue to me, but those parts aren't very lubricious, and don't clean up very easily. I'm not sure why there is such a big difference, but all nitride BCGs are not the same.

Joe Mamma