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Thread: No Longer in Shadows, Pentagonís U.F.O. Unit Will Make Some Findings Public

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    He predicted that they should exist, but wasn't convinced they actually did. That isn't the same as rejecting the idea that they exist.
    Not sure of there's a distinction there or not, but he did not believe black holes could exist in nature, and strongly rejected quantum entanglement and other outcomes in the quantum realm:

    https://www.nature.com/news/2005/050.../050328-8.html

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...d-the-quantum/
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  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    Not sure of there's a distinction there or not, but he did not believe black holes could exist in nature, and strongly rejected quantum entanglement and other outcomes in the quantum realm:

    https://www.nature.com/news/2005/050.../050328-8.html

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...d-the-quantum/
    The distinction is this:

    I'm not sure they exist.
    They don't exist.

    One is an absolute. Regarding quantum, we have to remember Einstein wrote his paper on relativity in 1915, that was cutting edge stuff back then. But Einstein didn't completely reject quantum, he actually wrote “On the Quantum Theory of Radiation” and a few others related to the subject. But at that time, our comprehension of QT wasn't anything close to what it would be even a few decades later. Bohr and Heisenberg laid the real groundwork allowing QT to be accepted as Quantum Physics in 1927.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

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  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    The distinction is this:

    I'm not sure they exist.
    They don't exist.

    One is an absolute. Regarding quantum, we have to remember Einstein wrote his paper on relativity in 1915, that was cutting edge stuff back then. But Einstein didn't completely reject quantum, he actually wrote “On the Quantum Theory of Radiation” and a few others related to the subject. But at that time, our comprehension of QT wasn't anything close to what it would be even a few decades later. Bohr and Heisenberg laid the real groundwork allowing QT to be accepted as Quantum Physics in 1927.
    Then you and I have read different things on that one, and or, interpreted what we read differently.
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  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    Then you and I have read different things on that one, and or, interpreted what we read differently.
    I think Einstein realized the math was telling him such things "should" exist, but he couldn't conceptualize them in reality so he arrived at "I'm not sure they actually exist" but stop short of saying "they don't actually exist."

    We also have to remember in 1915 we understood so little, even Einstein, and our understanding of the universe just took a dramatic redefine that few people could actually even understand. It really wouldn't be until the end of the war, and a dramatic demonstration of matter converted to energy, that everyone finally accepted things that were discovered 30 years prior.

    And it was only then that science took a dramatic new focus when the atomic age was declared. You have to think of it a bit like the industrial revolution where everyone else felt late to the game and raced to catch up. Before that most people, and a few scientists, treated all of this like the theoretical.

    If you weren't involved in the Manhattan Project, it was a bit like string or membrane theory, really interesting ideas that may or may not be correct but it doesn't matter because we have no way of proving any of it anyway.

    You and I were born after the atomic age when so many of these things were absolutes, we have to remember Einstein in context of when he lived, what he said and when. Einstein was a genius, and his greatest ability may have been to imagine a more correct model of the universe and attempt to define what it would look like.

    But he didn't get everything correct, I don't even think that would have been possible. Like almost everyone else he assumed a steady state universe and kept having to adjust him findings to make them work with that model. This is his famous cosmological constant.

    We also have to remember that while he predicted black holes would be a consequence of relativity, when he stated "but we will never find them" he was talking about direct observation of such an object being impossible in addition to black holes being a rarity should they actually exist. He imagined them as lightless pinholes in the middle of black space, he couldn't imagine how something like that could actually be observed even if we somehow looked right at one in a telescope.

    But like most scientists, he was cautious of absolutes where the evidence was still a bit incomplete.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

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  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    I think Einstein realized the math was telling him such things "should" exist, but he couldn't conceptualize them in reality so he arrived at "I'm not sure they actually exist" but stop short of saying "they don't actually exist."


    We also have to remember in 1915 we understood so little, even Einstein, and our understanding of the universe just took a dramatic redefine that few people could actually even understand. It really wouldn't be until the end of the war, and a dramatic demonstration of matter converted to energy, that everyone finally accepted things that were discovered 30 years prior.

    And it was only then that science took a dramatic new focus when the atomic age was declared. You have to think of it a bit like the industrial revolution where everyone else felt late to the game and raced to catch up. Before that most people, and a few scientists, treated all of this like the theoretical.

    If you weren't involved in the Manhattan Project, it was a bit like string or membrane theory, really interesting ideas that may or may not be correct but it doesn't matter because we have no way of proving any of it anyway.

    You and I were born after the atomic age when so many of these things were absolutes, we have to remember Einstein in context of when he lived, what he said and when. Einstein was a genius, and his greatest ability may have been to imagine a more correct model of the universe and attempt to define what it would look like.

    But he didn't get everything correct, I don't even think that would have been possible. Like almost everyone else he assumed a steady state universe and kept having to adjust him findings to make them work with that model. This is his famous cosmological constant.

    We also have to remember that while he predicted black holes would be a consequence of relativity, when he stated "but we will never find them" he was talking about direct observation of such an object being impossible in addition to black holes being a rarity should they actually exist. He imagined them as lightless pinholes in the middle of black space, he couldn't imagine how something like that could actually be observed even if we somehow looked right at one in a telescope.

    But like most scientists, he was cautious of absolutes where the evidence was still a bit incomplete.
    He argued multiple times they could not form in nature, I take that as "they don't actually exist" personally.

    "In 1939 Einstein published a paper in the journal Annals of Mathematics with the daunting title On a Stationary System with Spherical Symmetry Consisting of Many Gravitating Masses. With it, Einstein sought to prove that black holes--celestial objects so dense that their gravity prevents even light from escaping--were impossible."

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...d-the-quantum/

    Far as I know, he never changed his mind on that one. Funny thing is, there's now some physicists who have come full circle and think black holes don't exist, at least not as the entities thought.
    - Will

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    ďThose who do not view armed self defense as a basic human right, ignore the mass graves of those who died on their knees at the hands of tyrants.Ē

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    He argued multiple times they could not form in nature, I take that as "they don't actually exist" personally.

    "In 1939 Einstein published a paper in the journal Annals of Mathematics with the daunting title On a Stationary System with Spherical Symmetry Consisting of Many Gravitating Masses. With it, Einstein sought to prove that black holes--celestial objects so dense that their gravity prevents even light from escaping--were impossible."

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...d-the-quantum/

    Far as I know, he never changed his mind on that one. Funny thing is, there's now some physicists who have come full circle and think black holes don't exist, at least not as the entities thought.
    I have not read that paper, and while I have read a few things where he questioned if they actually existed and / or could even be detected IF they existed, that is the closest thing to an absolute that I've ever read. He was generally more cautious about such things.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

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