(Army) 33yo non prior service. Help decide on a combat MOS

[ABNAK]

If I was your age and thinking the way you are I'd enlist for Air Force Security Police, maybe a NG unit. They get to play with guns and the USAF life is undoubtedly better than the Army or Marine Corps (probably Navy too, unless you like being cooped up for months at a time with nowhere else to go). The USAF security forces have evolved over the years to become not just gate guards anymore.

I do not regret my choice when I joined. I enlisted in Army Delayed Entry right after I turned 17 and was in it my whole senior year of high school. I left for active duty the day after I turned 18. There is a reason why Infantry or higher on the food chain are generally gotten into as a "kid" (talking first delving into it, not career guys who stay). When you get older you have more sense!

As an "old[er]" fella I am more mentally mature than I was as an 18yo kid. My body, however, is also. Kind of flip-flopped.....I could run and do PT quite well, but was basically a rebellious punk. Now my mind is right but I'd be in a wheelchair if I did the physical stuff I did then!

While I still keep in decent shape, I couldn't do the running/rucking that was required of me then. The other thing that would bother me is the obviously stupid shit you do and merely mentioning a better way gets you an "At ease!" The Army, especially the Infantry, isn't known for geniuses setting protocols on how to do things. It is the Army way, and that's it.

I still say USAF Security Forces if "gunning" it is your thing.

[Averageman]

Not to derail this thread too much, but in your opinion (and the opinion of the other vets here), is the amount of bullshit recruits get put through absolutely necessary for creating good soldiers/marines/sailors/airmen of any age? Or is it mostly because they're dealing with young, immature, and often undisciplined kids?

I can't speak for what goes on today. I graduated OSUT in early 1981, retired in mid 2001 and served as a contractor embedded in either a Armor or Infantry unit from 2002 until 2015. I don't even know what is happening today.
Toward the end of my tenure as a Soldier I thought I noticed a distinct difference in the discipline. By the time I retired as a Contractor it was very noticeable.
I enjoyed Basic and Tank School, I excelled there. A Military Dad really prepped me for it though. Getting to my Unit was the first real time I got my BS level pegged. There were some heavy drug users and general losers in Junior Leadership positions then though. By 83/84 they had most of that cleaned up with urinalysis testing .
Hazing is one thing, kind of to be expected, but racial tensions, rampant heroin use (Germany) and the massive amount of alcohol these guys would drink was an eye opener.
I don't know what to expect now, these young men could likely be my Grandkids age, me at 59.
I do notice that now even as a technical expert on the vehicle, I could garner little interest in actually finishing or learning things. I remember being called at Church on a Sunday to replace a fuel injector (20 minute job) when I dropped everything, changed out of my Church clothes and in to my coveralls, nobody gave a damn about learning to change fuel injectors, so I did it myself. The vehicle sat there for another week in the maintenance bay.
It was just one FUBAR day after another and so when the cranes that hadn't been inspected in at least 3 years began snapping cables under load, I just hung up my hat and went home.
Nobody was going to be responsible, no one was accountable, I just couldn't put up with it anymore.

[Wake27]

If you can’t get an option 40 or 18X, go 11B. It’s been several years but when I went through, the Ranger recruiter came and briefed us and then every DS picked a few of the top performers to go to RASP. I wasn’t asking the movie question to be a dick. If you want that, 11B in Regiment is the best way IMO. I don’t have a long tab or scroll so there’s a few people on this forum with more direct knowledge than I (one already chimed in) but if you want another opinion on SF vs Ranger feel free to PM me.

If you want to do cool stuff, it’s not in big Army and a lot of it isn’t for officers even in SOF.

Also, on PT. You said you could crush the ACFT or something to that extent. I assume that means you haven’t actually done it. The individual events aren’t extremely hard, putting them all together is where it gets more challenging. The number of people that have actually crushed it is pretty small so you’re either a stud or a little arrogant, or I just misunderstood.

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A little more on this. SF now is not SF of early GWOT. Units are still deploying to AFG and getting in the fight but that is not most of SF. Most of SF is doing something closer to their primary mission set, which is not direct action.

[Striker6]

Did I mention gay?

(obviously a little biased, see sigline!)

As a former 13F, I support this assessment.

[seb5]

I can't speak directly to the Army, but I joined the Navy Reserve as a Seabee (Engineers) and was 37 years old at Great Mistakes. I was a married father of two and a full time LEO at the time. I had been on the SWAT team for many years and was a PT machine.

It sucked being the oldest one there. Try having a 33 year old RDC (DI) on you all the time telling you they're going to break you because you don't belong in his military. The snow watch, outside from 0200-0400 in January did suck. He didn't break me. I will say that boot camp was much easier on my mentally and emotionally than on the average 19-20 year old. Obviously, I think, the Army PT is much more physically challenging than the Navy. There were two others in thier 30's. They were studs and were going to be SEAL's. They failed and ended up Boatswain Mates chipping paint for thier enlistment. That is more the norm for the older guys that think they'll excel and get to SOF units in all the branches.

Guard and reserve guys can just about stay deployed if they desire. I know many Bee's that have the GWOT expeditionary, Iraq, Afghanistan, and even the new Syria/Iraq(inherent resolve) campaign ribbons. That's 4 separate one year deployments and I have friends with even more deployments as reserves.

In general older guys do excel once they get past the first enlistment and are usually E-6's be then. I've seen many make E-7, E-8, and even E-9 that came in later in life, or take a commission and stay in till 60, especially as an Engineer in the CEC (Seabee Officers).

In my time I've done multiple deployments to all the shitty hot spots and am really looking to retire in 10 months. At 56 the PT isn't hard but it does suck to have to maintain everything when your knees and back let you know your age. I made E-8 in 13 years and will retire as that. I never wanted an extra career but I'm glad I stayed in. I wouldn't do it as an active member but the reserves allowed me to serve and contribute without giving up everything else. Just do it!

[CRAMBONE]

Thanks. Would you care to explain why too old for ranger bn and why SF might be a better fit? Culture/pipeline/standards? I appreciate your input

The NG SF option is very interesting.. I just thought active might be better for me re: preparation/training for selection as well as the fact that I'm a current student, not in an established career. So life would just be easier/more simple as active duty.

It's just the 18x age limit ordeal. I could put in a packet after 11x/19d OSUT if I go active duty

EDIT: I now don't see this thread in the forum and when I try to reply, it says I don't have permission to access this page.. What's the deal?

Your age man. You mentioned being early 30s, I am a few years older than you and I’m starting to feel life. Ranger Regiment is a rough life. With a high deployment tempo, high training tempo and a high testosterone fueled/always on the move/kill everything mentality. Group is a lot more laid back and the typical SF dude is a lot more mature than the typical scrolled Ranger.

Active duty life is far from simple. There is always something filling the schedule, even when there shouldn’t be the schedule “always has to be filled”. And I’m talking about stupid daily barracks life not training or field time. If you go active infantry you will be in the field, which isn’t going to give you time to train up for selection. And depending on which NG SF company you are with, they will “coach” you on how to pass pre-selection, selection and Q course.

[Wake27]

I’m not sure what the plan is for this thread and the OP now. He’s basically limited to replying via PM to everyone or spam posting this hell out of the other subforums to be able to post here again.

Either way, I don’t know if age is that much of a problem. His body hasn’t been beaten down from several years of army already so his 32 may be different than many of ours. Even if not, I know some old guys that can still do work. My last BDE had an old (40s) chaplain pass Ranger school.

Dealing with the kids as peers would be super shitty though, which is part of the reason I have only advocated for SOF.


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[Hammer_Man]

I think at 33 he’s too old for an 18x contract. He may want to talk to an Air Force recruiter, last time I talked to them they raised their SF age limit to 40. That was a year or two ago, so it may have been changed.

[cd228]

I'll throw this up here in case the OP is still reading. I got in at 25, went to basic, OCS, Airborne, Commissioned infantry, got hurt, went to 101st had a Platoon, branch transferred to Signal, worked for MPs, Infantry and now the Cavalry.

First and foremost, Complete your degree before you come in, that way you have a plan B if it dosen't work out. The Army isn't for everyone and folks get injured all the time. Don't expect to have a lot of down time in your first year or two, between basic/AIT and being the low man on the scrotum pole, you'll be busy. Additionally, even though the GWOT has spun down on the conventional side (not completely) the OPTEMPO is still high and you'll probably find yourself in Europe or Korea on Rotation. You don't want to be the guy that comes out of the Army at 40 and has to go back to college IOT get an entry level job in your field.

Age wise I can't really comment without knowing you. Some folks hit their prime later in life and others start going down hill rapidly. The old PT scoring table adjusted for age, the new one doesn't. The APFT is easier to pass (except folks are having issues with it, check out the statistics) but it's harder to max (YMMV). Also understand, we have a new test, we don't necessarily have a plan to train for it (but, we have purchased a lot of beaver fit gear). If you want to be SOF, you better be maxing the ACFT and any other PT test they give you.

Big Army infantry are good dudes, but their TTPs, training and equipment are IMHO well behind the SOF guys. We usually would learn from them and adopt some of their gear, but it would take time to get from them to us. Also, big Army is pivoting towards Large Scale Combat Operations, killing enemy tanks and Infantry and deal with incoming artillery and aviation. So don't be surprised if you do less room clearing and more Gunnery. Or if you are light, more dismounted patrolling and battle drills. You'll still do MOUT training and hopefully some underground and mega city stuff too. Expect to fight the OPFOR at the national training centers every year or two.

Don't think getting into SOF will be easy, it won't. I saw one of the best NCOs I've every known fail a try out. He impressed the unit and they invited him back for a second try, he aced it and I never saw him again. He was tabbed and Scrolled, did PT literally morning, noon and night and was a no shit expert at all things Infantry. The Army is fixing to go into another RIF, so they'll be less slots and higher standards.

Also remember that not all SOF is the same. Special Forces has several missions, direct action (the cool guy Ninja Stuff) is only one of them. The SF guys have a language requirement for a reason. Better be prepared to use your Brain as much if not more then your trigger finger. Then there is Ranger Regiment and it's BNs. IMHO the Rangers are our best and most diversely trained light Infantry guys. They do stuff that must regular infantry units fantasize about, but it's still Infantry esq, like Raids. Ambushes, Going after HVTs and supporting other SOF elements. However, the Rangers are very competitive to get into and competitive to stay in. Then there are other units under the SOF umbrella, but I'm not qualified to talk about them.

I'd talk to you about the O side and mention that most new Infantry Officers get a shot at Airborne and Ranger School right out of Infantry Officers Basic Course or whatever they are calling now, I think it's Infantry Basic Officer Leadership Course (I-BOLC) now. But you don't seems interested in it. I'll say that if you think being an O is all about the $, then you are wrong, it's all about power point(Fu%^ PowerPoint). It's more like playing Quarterback or being a Fire Chief, you call the plays (to an extent) but your offensive line does most of the scoring or you hose teams put out the fire while you work the radio. Given your advanced age, you'd probably like the lifestyle of an O better then a junior soldier, but you aren't interested. O's can also go to SOF, I've noticed it's easier for most LTs to get the training time need to prep for selection. The Enlisted guys, especially the junior ones seem to always get stuck on details and rarely get time during the duty day to prep, unless the SF recruiter is running a specific prep program or your leadership is especially supportive.

Understand, as a single enlisted guy just out of basic, you will live in the barracks, probably with a room mate in the same room (some posts have individual rooms with a shared bath). It's hard to score, when your roomate is sitting in the corner playing X-Box wearing a Furry Costume (oh the things you find during barracks inspection). Don't surprised if you get hit up for a ride or assigned as the new kid's sponsor because you have a car. You'll be older than your PL, maybe your Platoon SGT and definitely most of your platoon mates, so finding people to hang out with might be difficult. Also, you will not be able to keep your firearms in your barracks room. They will have to be stored off post or in the unit arms room (where you'll need to ask permission to draw them).

Given what the OP wrote, he might want to look into the 18X option if it's still available. Guaranteed shot at infantry school, airborne school, a DLAB and a shot at SF selection in exchange for 8 years of your life. Just don't fail, quit or get injured during the training pipeline. I had a couple of 18X dropouts in my company. Good kids all of them, but they were stuck doing a job they had not signed up for. IMHO the 18X is a bit of a trap, as they know there is a significant failure rate in the pipeline.

Or You could go for an option 40 contract, which is a Ranger Contract. I don't know the length of service obligation, but I would be surprised if it is 8 years. This option isn't exclusive to infantry guys. A couple of the dudes from my basic class where Medics and they went to RASP after AIT. The unit decides if/when to send you to ranger school. Also like the 18X contract is you wash out or get injured, you still owe the obligation (unless they med board, Chapter or RIF you).

YMMV and Good Luck

[1168]

As a former 13F, I support this assessment.

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