Bren2---any reason to skip?

[Bret]

I picked mine up today.


Now to install the magazine adapter.

[Bret]

Done. Here it is with a D&H 7.62x39 AR15 magazine installed.


And here it is with an RZE Unimag (holds 25rds 7.62x39) installed.

[dlrflyer]

That’s cool, let us know how it handles and functions.

[Vgex2]

Really neat. I appreciate the versatility of the platform. I wouldn't mind picking one up myself.

[Magsz]

I hope you guys have your reading glasses on.

I will try and make this as concise as I can.

I have a 7.62X39 9 inch bren 2 and an 11 inch 5.56 bren 2.

The 7.62 gun has 5180 rounds through it with approximately two hundred of those being suppressed with a dead air sandman K and a YHM Resonator K.

The gun went back to CZ at 5000 rounds for multiple failures to extract and eject.

The clear polymer mags are absolute garbage. The feed lips will break simply from use and NOT abuse. I had never dropped my two samples on concrete or dropped them loaded or even partially loaded. Purely from use, the feed lips started to spread and spider web cracks developed.

The 7.62 gun is over gassed, horribly. Brass ejects to 12:30, basically forward. Bolt velocity is way too high. Adding in a suppressor makes things worse as expected. Stove piped cases are tearing up the interior of my soft aluminum receiver. They've cut straight through the anodizing and are chewing the gun apart.

CZ didn't give a shit about my warranty claim. They returned the gun with the following on the work order "Gas port and gas plug cleaned, test fire ok". Nevermind the fact that I wrote a thesis sized letter to them documenting the failures. They did absolutely nothing to address the feedway and gassing issues. They also neglected to replace my cracked mags which I included in the shipment. Meh.

The gun is a shit box to me. I buy tools to use them, I dont buy them to use them up. We all know that AR receiver sets will last THOUSANDS of rounds. At some point, if the awful extraction and erratic ejection plus malfunctions continue, i'm eventually going to wear a fricking hole in the receiver. It's kind of annoying to see this level of wear after only 5k rounds when I have AR15 brass deflectors that have seen upwards of 75K and look essentially brand new.

I also ran into issues with my HBI handguard causing the bolt to not go into battery. No clue what caused that but i'm not the only person. There's a dimensional issue somewhere and the receiver is flexing to the point where it was preventing the carrier from going all the way forward. I believe this can be remedied with a lower torque spec and appropriate thread locking compound. As it stands, I've held off from buying any additional HBI products, not because they're bad but because I dont trust the variance in the damned gun and I dont want to ruin my stock 556 gun since it seems to work.

My personal opinion is that the 556 gun is one of the softest shooting 556 guns ive ever shot and ive shot a shit ton of modern rifles. Its an absolute pleasure and in 1k rounds, it has been extremely reliable and really fun to shoot. The ergo's on the american platform suck ass, as Aries mentioned. The handguard that CZ came up with for the MS version is laughably bad. I also raise an eyebrow at CZ for "forgetting" or "omitting' or whatever lame ass excuse you want to come up with, a suppressor setting on the gas block. The American market loves suppressors and BOTH guns REALLY need a smaller gas port to deal with the increased backpressure. My 556 gun runs better than my 762 but you can definitely feel the bolt velocity increase when you slap the can on there.

I cleaned the 7.62 today and noted a few things. The "recoil rod buffer" or whatever the correct nomenclature is, is deforming. The bolt, in all of its rocket ship like velocity is beating the shit out of this part. It will eventually fail.

The ejection port is looking rough.

The plating on the recoil rod is flaking at the back of the buffer where it is slamming into the stock adapter.

The cam pin is wearing its trough in the receiver. I will be watching this as the round count continues, if the round count continues. I'm very much losing interest in the platform despite it being my grail gun, or at one time, my grail gun. On paper, it has so much to offer but id rather shoot guns than worry about my equipment disintegrating. At this time, I would wholeheartedly recommend the 556 guns. They bring a ton to the table in the way of excellent ergonomics (if you get one that works with an HBI handguard) and an amazing recoil impulse. If the aftermarket releases a suppressor gas plug, that will resolve that issue as well. Without further refinement from CZ and aftermarket advancements, spending 1600-1800 bucks on this seems like a waste when it does the same thing that an AR15 does that costs 600 bucks.

The only thing that the bren definitively does better is without a charging handle, it releases less gas to the face. I've tried the piston route for AR15's and I think its a load of malarky. If you're running a high back pressure can, you're still going to get gas to the face regardless of operating system due to the inherent "flaw" if you will in the AR design. The open rear of the gun simply allows gas to funnel right into your face.

This gun seems to be all the rage as of late but I really question the voracity of the claims that its the best thing ever. Very few people are shooting their guns. Very few people are running their guns with high back pressure suppressors. Refer back to my first point. There are way too many people ready to declare this thing "the bees knees" after running 300 rounds through the platform...

CZ is silent on this and thus far, there is no "professional" representation from the industry that can offer up more datapoints. I'd love to see some of the prolific trainers run a sample for thousands of rounds and report back. The fact that GIGN adopted the gun means very little to me. Police and military organizations are known for making oddball decisions and their cycle of use and replacement is vastly different than a normal civilians. I want to love this gun but CZ's downright dismissive warranty "service" leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth. Buyer beware at this current time.

I'm going to go ahead and post this and ill add photos as I have time.

[Aries144]

I hope you guys have your reading glasses on.

Thanks you for taking the time to report in such detail.

I had a similar experience with Beretta and an ARX 100. The ONLY thing that got Beretta to take responsibility for their abortion was contacting the Better Business Bureau. That got me a phone call from their corporate office that oozed fake concern, but got me my money back.

Contact the BBB. CZUSA had their chance to make things right. They've shown zero integrity and deserve to have their reputation damaged as a result. They should have better oversight of warranty cases.

[Bret]

Magsz, In addition to what Aries144 suggested, I'd also suggest making a Youtube video. At a minimum you'll be providing accurate information to other potential buyers. There's a possibility that it will motivate CZ to make things right. Here's one that I made about my Arsenal SLR-106CR. Talk about overgassed, you literally couldn't see the cases ejecting from the rifle. Yes, it's a low budget production, but anyone watching will get the point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2QDsr5hzzk&t=1s

Given that your 7.62x39 Bren is severely overgassed, I think the solution is pretty simple. You need to get the gas tube (or whatever the part is that has the gas port holes) for the 14" 7.62x39. The port holes should definitely be smaller. If they're too small, you can drill the out to the correct size with a little experimentation. If the 5.56x45 versions are interchangeable, then perhaps start with the 14" 5.56x45 one. I'm guessing that the gas tubes for the 805 and Bren 2 are not interchangeable because CZ lists the 805 gas tubes on its website, but doesn't indicate that they're compatible with the Bren 2. Given that CZ has the 805 gas tubes on their website, it's likely that the Bren 2 gas tubes will follow at some point. No, you shouldn't have to do this, but I'm just trying to help you with a solution that works.

Not to get off topic here, but I do want to share a positive experience when it comes to overgassing and the response by a company. When I bought my Swiss Arms 551LB, I found that it was severely overgassed. They actually have a chart that indicates the correct port sizes which is available on the internet. I measured the gas port holes and sure enough, they were too big. I contacted Dave at Swiss Arms in Texas who contacted Swiss Arms in Switzerland. Not only did they get me the correct gas valve, they sent everyone who had purchased a 551LB the correct gas valve. This is in spite of the fact that I was the only one who had reported the problem at the time. Swiss Arms USA is literally a one man operation, but all it took was that one man and common sense to make things right.

[Magsz]

Bret,

Thank you for sharing your experiences, it's appreciated.

Unfortunately, I dont think its as simple as swapping gas tubes for a multitude of reasons.

1. It requires patience as the parts are not available.

2. There is a user on TOS named Bisonworld that seems to know a shit ton about these weapons. I'm not sure if he works for CZ or what but he is a font of knowledge. However, he does not directly answer questions as I believe he does not want to volunteer advice that is not supported by the factory. Again, no clue who this dude is or what he does but he has way too much insider information to not be working for, having worked for or in connection with some of the engineers at CZ. He essentially states that its not as simple as swapping parts. He volunteered no other information beyond that but has said that certain combinations of gas tube, gas plugs and barrels are not compatible for whatever reason.

3. I'm not an engineer. I shouldn't have to engineer a solution to a problem that is not relegated to my sample alone. I like to tinker but there is a point where I simply give up because i'm shooting in the dark. The Bren is a far more complex mechanism than an AR15. Drilling out a gas port on that is easy from a mechanical standpoint as well as an informational standpoint. There is a TON of published information regarding gas port sizes.

I dont want to give up on the gun but right now, as I mentioned prior, I dont want to shoot a gun that is going to literally disintegrate in front of me. I guarantee that out of my warranty period, CZ will not replace the firearm, especially since i'm extremely honest and I wont lie to them when it comes to round count.

As far as a 'tube video goes. I can do something like that eventually when time allows but I honestly question the worth. I like this forum because people seem to care but if you go to Facebook, you have an entire forum/thread/group dedicated to fawning over a machine. The fanboy is particularly strong in the Bren Cult which is probably a byproduct of how rabid CZ fans are. I don't have time or any desire to deal with unbridled bias and stupidity. I deal with it enough on a daily basis.

Thank you again for the suggestions brother. I wish it were that easy to test.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

Magsz,

Thank you for that amazing, money saving post.

[Magsz]

Magsz,

Thank you for that amazing, money saving post.

Obviously, you guys can tell that i'm irked by the hopefully apparent tone in my writing. Regardless of that, I hope that my objectivity comes across as my goal behind my posts is to share my experiences with as little bias as possible.

I feel almost guilty writing what I wrote because the guns really are cool. I just don't want to come here, post a bunch of hype filled nonsense and end up recommending something that A, costs a lot of money and B, in reality is really not any better than anything else on the market. The ONE thing that it COULD excel at, it doesn't simply because CZ doesn't want to acknowledge their oversight, ie the lack of a suppressor port/option.

Most of the players here are mature people that aren't going to run out and impulse buy the latest and greatest. If you can wait, I would definitely see how the platform matures. It's got potential but right now, I dont believe the 7.62X39 9 inch guns at least, are ready for prime time. If you do any real in depth reading on these things, it seems as though everyone reporting issues is reporting issues with the 7.62X39 9 inch guns with maybe one fella having issues with an 11 inch. I have yet to read anyone report a single failure on a 5.56 gun and I haven't personally had one.

Hang in there guys. It's not over but right now i'd personally direct my money elsewhere.