Massive explosions in Beirut

[yoni]

Let's think about the cover story for a second.

First why would someone in Lebanon need so much Ammonia Nitrate?

Second why would a business man Russian or Lebanese keep it stored for over 6 years?

Third why would the Port Authorities tie up so much warehouse space for 6 years?

Fourth. A new story comes out that it was on a ship that broke down in the port in 2013. The ammonia nitrate was removed and put in storage. Why didn't the port sell it years ago?

I don't buy any of it.

We also know that Hizbollah has many times in the past tried to import huge amounts ammonia nitrate, and some how didn't have success every time they tried.

Hizbollah storage sight got hit by someone and Hizbollah that has already lost the support of a lot of the people in Lebanon, would be hunted down in the streets if the truth came out.

[Sam]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...chemicals.html

That Dailymail link is very comprehensive in its coverage and pictures.

[Grand58742]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...chemicals.html

That is crazy.

[yoni]

From the Daily Mail article

Robert Baer, a former CIA operative who operated for years in the Middle East, stuck a more nuanced tone -saying the explosion appears to have been an accident, but he is not convinced that ammonium nitrate was the sole cause.

He pointed to videos of what appeared to be fireworks going off amid a pall of white smoke, right before the main blast which sent a column of reddish-brown smoke high into the sky.

Baer told CNN that those 'fireworks' were likely munitions that had been stored as part of a weapons cache that included military-grade propellant.

'It was clearly a military explosive,' he said. 'It was not fertilizer like ammonium nitrate. I'm quite sure of that.'

But he added that it would likely take years to learn the truth of what caused the blast, if it was ever revealed, because 'no one is going to want to admit they kept military explosives at the port'.

[Coal Dragger]

Ammonium nitrate is an oxidizer, you don’t store oxidizers or transport oxidizers with or near fuel sources, explosives, or flammable/combustible materials. So an accident is plausible. Same for sodium nitrate if that is what was being stored, again an oxidizer.

When mixed with a fuel source such as a flammable liquid or a flammable solid you can end up with an explosive because the oxidizer brings a lot of 02 to the party mixed in with the flammable material. This the rate of combustion is no longer limited to the combustion’s ability to pull atmospheric 02.

That said you usually need a pretty thorough mix of a fuel source and an oxidizer to get an explosion, plus depending on the fuel source you still need a booster or high explosive material to light a mixture of an oxidizer fuel off into an explosion rather than a really hot fast fire.

I’m not sure that is what we witnessed in Beirut, that looked a lot more like an explosion consistent with a very powerful high explosive that was already in the chemical form of a high explosive material. Not a lot of fire in the powerful blast, because fast burning high explosives don’t make a big lingering visible fireball, they burn really really fast by design to produce hot expanding gas that is moving really really fast to destroy material, crater, cut metal (shaped charge) etc. Slower burning explosives that use an oxidizer like ammonium nitrate are common in quarries and mines because the longer duration burn is better for moving material like overburden in a controlled manner, rather than flinging rocks and dirt 2 miles into the air and everywhere else.

[chadbag]

So, let's give the benefit of the doubt to the current mainstream explanation of "Ammonium Nitrate" as outlined by the Daily Mail. (There could have been AN as well as other explosives etc. so it could be true that AN was left there to "rot" since 2014 and was a major part of the explosion, along with other stuff -- as I mentioned earlier, AN usually does not give off red/pink smoke but rather yellow/golden brown according to a former ATF investigator quoted in another article).

Why would the government not act on the many warnings that came from the custom's authorities? Maybe they were under pressure to leave it be so that certain parties that actually run Lebanon could use it to create bombs etc.? Someone wanted that AN to remain there.

[Wildcat]

Ammonium nitrate is an oxidizer, you don’t store oxidizers or transport oxidizers with or near fuel sources, explosives, or flammable/combustible materials. So an accident is plausible. Same for sodium nitrate if that is what was being stored, again an oxidizer.

When mixed with a fuel source such as a flammable liquid or a flammable solid you can end up with an explosive because the oxidizer brings a lot of 02 to the party mixed in with the flammable material. This the rate of combustion is no longer limited to the combustion’s ability to pull atmospheric 02.

That said you usually need a pretty thorough mix of a fuel source and an oxidizer to get an explosion, plus depending on the fuel source you still need a booster or high explosive material to light a mixture of an oxidizer fuel off into an explosion rather than a really hot fast fire.

While AN is usually insensitive to detonation, particularly in a moist environment, I suspect that once the nitrate is exposed to a prolonged fire, it is much more easily initiated, like in Galveston Bay.

There are inconsistencies in the various reports lingering around about Beirut. A lot of them are running with the ammonium nitrate as the source explosive (there are reasons for skepticism), others are indicating it was sodium nitrate (plausible). The Daily Mail report https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...chemicals.html
claims "The 2,750 ton cargo - officially saltpetre - was confiscated en route.."
Anyone ever heard of AN (NH4-NO3) being called 'saltpeter'? Ordinarily saltpeter should either be Potassium Nitrate (KNO3) or Sodium Nitrate (NaNO3). Which might explain the red color of the smoke too.

[Artos]

Don't shoot the messenger as I got no skin in the game but got this off my hunting forum & after seeing a couple of post that we have some knowledge on SN would like to know if this has any merit in regards to the humidity angle:


Pardon the pun, but I'm gonna blow a hole in the ammonium nitrate myth. Ammonium nitrate is hygroscopic (absorbs water from the air), so, if it was really stored for years right there on the water front, it would have become hydrated and nonreactive. Secondly, ammonium nitrate is only explosive with the addition of some liquid hydrocarbon such as kerosene or fuel oil. Unless there was a whole lot of that in there with it, and I mean it would have had to be well mixed, that stuff is pretty inert. I'm still going with the theory that there was something in there that the Israeli's weren't found of.

[SteyrAUG]

Rough Language.

That was impressive.

[Wildcat]

Don't shoot the messenger as I got no skin in the game but got this off my hunting forum & after seeing a couple of post that we have some knowledge on SN would like to know if this has any merit in regards to the humidity angle:


Pardon the pun, but I'm gonna blow a hole in the ammonium nitrate myth. Ammonium nitrate is hygroscopic (absorbs water from the air), so, if it was really stored for years right there on the water front, it would have become hydrated and nonreactive. Secondly, ammonium nitrate is only explosive with the addition of some liquid hydrocarbon such as kerosene or fuel oil. Unless there was a whole lot of that in there with it, and I mean it would have had to be well mixed, that stuff is pretty inert.

I too am skeptical that the explosion was primarily AN.

It -is- true that AN is very hydroscopic and the 'wetter' it gets the tougher it is to detonate.
It is not true that AN requires an additive to make it an explosive. It does take extra effort to set off AN alone but it can be done and is commonly used for moving earth. Additives will sensitize it. Certain additives will also improve its performance as an explosive.
In general AN is so insensitive, and so efficient as a nitrogen source, it is used just about everywhere as a fertilizer. Its quite safe if you don't heat it up a lot and don't contaminate it. IIRC, after the Oklahoma City bombing, US suppliers had to reformulate commercial AN fertilizer so it can't be detonated.

Putting AN in close proximity to a sustained fire can make the material susceptible to violent decomposition. Since AN is an oxidizer, it can also make a fire difficult to put out, but AN doesn't burn well alone. In several of the industrial explosions involving AN that made history, firefighters were actively fighting the fire up until the explosion.

I expect that the same could happen with some other previously mentioned compounds.